Taylor, your site reflects the world within people’s minds; this is awesome beyond words.

To those just arriving to this forum: If you’re someone who still likes people (haha!) and are curious as to what they’re thinking, this site is it.

I can’t not like you, Taylor. How is it politicians and devoutly religious folks share the same diplomatic way of not saying anything which doesn’t convey as anything but “nice”, so as to not lose a vote or a parishioner?

You ought to spank me for that comment, but you won’t haha! That’s why it’s so difficult to not like you. Like the science-minded atheist said in a video you shared–forgot his name…Somerstreet?–anyway, as a Christian you “walk the walk, talk the talk”…I agree with his opinion…and respect you on that premise, too.

Senta, your apology his accepted–and much of it was of your own imagined assumptions! How often are you going to test my initial observed and shared positive regard of you? Quit it!

Senta, it was very big and wonderfully healthful, mentally, of you to apologize. You may not see that you apologized over many things you misread or had erroneously perceived about me. In a way, you projected–thought we are alike in some ways. I should be honored to be as intellectual as such a young person as you. My intellect is of average intelligence; what my step-father joked his as being: “smarter than the average bear.”

So in my most astute way of words: I think you’re the bomb. But holy crap, you exhausted me with your conceptualizations even though they are brilliant…but not necessarily what I perceive or agree with.

It pained me to criticize a certain thing going on, observed in the movie forum side: if I expressed an “Oh, Wow” to someone else’s comment that didn’t mesh with yours, you responded with the same resplendent diatribe as you’ve done here on the religious side of Taylor’s (love it!) quirkily split movie/Christian discussion forum.

I’m awfully lazy by not cutting and pasting a person’s remarks to not make the mistake of responding to something hastily read to get the gist or, worse, totally misread. You do this too in your hurry to defend your awesome, but not always shared, viewpoints.

Your apologies are accepted with open arms–even the ones you perceive as real. My, my, oh my…you stirred the pot in this thread just like the thoughts of things going on in your amazing mind. You exhausted me, dear girl! But it allowed me to see the futility amidst it all: Taylor doesn’t really need my knowledge garnered in years of study, research in religion or, more recently in science. So, something good came out of your so-called being “in-between things”…and I actually know that in-between world more than I’d like to…but it’s NOT the same as yours.

It’s all good. Sleep well tonight.

Jon, if you’re reading this, I regret taking your advice and appreciate your sanity, your thoughtful intelligence, more than ever. I lost everyone who loved me unconditionally and am grateful for time given, allowed to communicate with you. Your humanitarian kindness is healing; something I can only hope to aspire becoming in the short time left in this beautiful but challenging reality called life.

Fair enough.

For the record, citations would always be appreciated by me. But you are right, not many other than me read those posts! hahaha. Regardless, you are always welcome wherever. You have a free hall pass to wherever here.

Taylor

@L
I apologize immediately. It was not my intention to hurt your feelings. I never said you hated Christians. I said you have a deep rooted hatred towards all things Christian. This does not mean Christian people, like Taylor, whom you have said continuously that you like, but you obviously have a problem with his beliefs because you are relentless in attacking it. Why? I do not know. It is one thing to passionately debate a movie, another to debate someone’s faith without provocation. I never meant that you hated your mother; certainly not. I apologize if you inferred that by my wording. That thought never crossed my mind and I would never consciously say or infer such a thing to anyone.

I apologize for any pain I have caused you and I will never involve myself in your conversations with Taylor ever again, so please feel free to comment all you want on his Christian writings. It will be just you and him from now on.

I shared the video not because I thought it was good. It was merely a way of showing a condensed history of the Christian faith from Christ’s death through the Reformation and all the corruption that went before that historical breakout. I thought you would like this Cliffnote version. I have shared this video with Muslims and they loved it because it shows how messed Christianity was in the early days. :D It has cheap production values but it is only 90 minutes long. If you know of another movie that has condensed Christianity’s birth into 90 minutes then I would not mind seeing it. I was not upset with you for not liking it. It was just a movie I thought you would enjoy for its expose on Christianity; in that respect it is pretty good. You could have said, Garbage, and I would have laughed and said, OK. But you missed the whole point of the video and went off to find fault in tangents that left me baffled. Catholicism has a long history of bringing in converts but allowing them to keep their pagan gods. They did it in France, they did it in Britain. It is why even their churches have gargoyles and demons all over their structures to ward away evil spirits. The history of Catholicism is fascinating. So I apologize that I misread you. I apologize that I missed your points even though I honestly did not understand them. The movie was not about Lutherans. There was no Lutheran Church when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis to the Wittenberg gates, which made me wonder if you even watched the movie because it is not anything at all about Lutherans. So…I simply apologize for not understanding you, or discerning your point. I thought we were going to have this rip-roaring conversation about how bad the early Holy Roman Church was. I thought it would give you and Taylor a platform to exchange. I was completely wrong and out of my depth.

I apologize that I sent the video to you, and I regret it completely because it has detoured our online friendship, however tenuous anything online is. I apologize that I misinterpreted your response and I do apologize for my impulsiveness, presumptuousness and perhaps recklessness in involving myself into your debates with Taylor. I was wrong and I had no business doing that.

I do not hide behind my youth. My da told me that. “Ah, yes, the impulsiveness of youth,” was his first comment when it blew up in my face. And FYI, my father has nothing to do with comments. I am here alone; I write what I feel. But perhaps if I had heeded his warning, then you and I would not be having this conversation. So I apologize for not listening to him either.

I mean all my apologies from the bottom of my heart. I never meant to hurt your feelings or “declare a war.” I do not do wars. …Peace.

You asked why I’m here. Answer: To first read your and other’s viewpoints and sometimes contribute mine without feeling inhibited by doing so.

I prefer reading people’s input than commenting because it’s quite wonderful how some are completely opposite than my idea, but I can begin to “see” their concept and agree, or add it on as an intriguing alternative.

The Bible Experiments are also well written and I was hoping to add research with citations but realize it would most likely be ignored or possibly become misconstrued and resentfully unwanted. Like the fact Star Trek follows science far more realistically than the earthly-family-drama-oriented Star Wars. Haha! Okay, that’s not relating to the Bible or NT but I hope it lightened the topic.

I no longer feel comfortable on this side of your site and will stick to the movie section should I find another film which befuddles and is in need of the movie site’s cool sharing of “ending meanings”. Except I’ll most likely read, not post, and move on like the significant number of those other folks you mentioned haha!

it’s only fair, Taylor, since I’ve read your gospel scripture inserts you read a quote I value from sci-fI author Philip K. Dick:

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”

Yep, that’s about as “spiritual” as it’s gonna get from me! See you on the other side…the movie side of your fab site!

Hello, Senta
You shared an “impassioned” commentary; demonstrated a loyalty, a deference to familial viewpoints. Your comments, approved by your da, do nothing to promote healthy discussion or a continuance. You’ve started a war of right or wrong, black or white, all or nothing. You’ve pretty much let it be known you do not value my opinion, that it’s beneath your intelligence and learned sophistication–you think I suck! How troll-like of you! It’s only fair at this point that you cannot continue to use your age as an excuse to dish out what you cannot take.

Despite what you perceive about me, I really do like most people. I say “most people” because there are some I just can’t and do not desire to understand but can only hope scientific research on the brain will help cure someday in regards to people who choose to torture, murder other people, animals; or have sex with children. You are delusional in your accusation that I hate most–if not all–people.

For you to say I hate Christians is tantamount to saying I hated my mother who was a Christian. Find a better way to defend the video because what you said is harsh, mean and simply, not true.

This world seems messed up–especially if we watch a lot of news or focus on dark matters. Some folks are strangely attracted to and immerse themselves in negativity as if it feeds some poetic trope created and nurtured inside themselves. From what you share, you seem to focus an inordinate amount of belief in doomsday prophesies. I do not disrespect and will not debate that viewpoint. it’s simply your choice.

A parent who is allowing you to be his vocal piece owes it to you to advise it is of a higher nature, a thoughtful intelligence, to allow and respect other’s perceptions and viewpoints which differ from your ideas.

What I’ve liked–until now haha!–about Taylor’s site is the abundance of really interesting perceptions, interpretations posted on what people think a movie is about without anyone trolling or becoming pushy in an unkind way.

Senta, you did not show respect for people’s perspectives on the Personal Shopper movie forum thread, in particular to TomT’s comment or my giving it a thumb’s up. Your following commentary was not warranted and is still there for you to read, perhaps see the negative tone it imparts. It made the next person preface the start of their opinion in a tentative way. It would be nice if you could try to contribute your initial amazing insights without becoming combative and disrespectful of other’s opinions so as discussions can continue on, are added upon, further unfold without you periodically reminding folks you’re “right”.

There’s no Good vs Evil in a discussion forum; no wrong or right. Just folks wishing to express their viewpoint, perceptions without a war ensuing. By you choosing words which have offensive tone, it stops the sharing of commentary which may actually be more entertaining, a more broadening experience you could benefit from if you allow yourself to think the teacher might not you.

It’s all good. It’s all fine. I’m not worried about any of it. It is what it is. I found the movie fascinating way to present a history I have known well for a long time. But to see it as a global struggle was fascinating to me. There are prophesies in Ezekiel or Daniel that would have even been more fun to play with. But it was good. I had not problem with your throwing in.

This was a conversation that I have had with a number of people over the years. Everyone is welcome. Seriously.
Taylor

Hey, Taylor,
I am very sorry that I got involved with your conversation with L. I thought I was helping by suggesting the documentary. It would give her speaking points to validate her disbelief in Christianity and you two could agree on that, but at the same time it shows that Christianity is not defined by the rampant hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. That is why it splintered creating sects of Christianity that are Sola Scriptura, where the Bible is the only reference for the teachings of Christ, as opposed to the Catholic Church which shut down the Bible, rewrote it and created other catechisms that defined how they wanted to rule the masses by keeping people ignorant. I thought you two could dialogue on level ground, that you could mutually agree that Christianity is rife with problems, but that it is not defined by hypocrites, but…I walked into that one, yes? Very blind and stupid of me. I am sorry for making it worse.

You know my father is a devout Christian like you, so I am grounded in Christian faith. I might know the Bible better than you because I like to read and study. Because my father is Christian, it behooved me to learn his faith. To watch a man pray daily is an amazing thing. When I was little I would ask him if he was praying for me and if he was, would he ask God to give me something vain or materialistic as children do. He would always say, sure, but I needed to pray too for it to work, and sometimes I did, and sometimes it worked. :) I want you to know that I respect your faith completely even though I am agnostic. I would never belittle your faith. If there was any religion that I would accept and subscribe to, it would be Christianity because it is the kindest. Jesus was very kind and he wanted everyone to be kind and loving to each other. Love God, love your neighbor, yes? These are good things to hold and cherish. I believe, in this life, we are to leave better than we came. If we have not grown in love then we have failed. This is maman’s creed – love, and keep doing it better until you are dead, never stop. Now you know why da loves maman so much. My mother has never belittled what my father believes. She admires it, and I believe that she will become a Christian someday simply because my father is such a steady, calm influence in her life. We are going through a current family crisis that will test my father’s faith and my mother’s endurance. It is why we came to America. I do not know how they will cope when the hammer falls, so to speak, but I believe love and faith will get them through. I am counting on my da to carry my mother and sister, and perhaps, in the end, I will find God too. I still have time to figure it out. Anyway, I will never do this again, jump into a debate with blinders on. I apologize again for being very presumptive and…stupid, basically. To my father’s credit, he did warn me. I should have listened. How do Americans say this, shoulda, coulda, woulda? (sp?). Too late now.

I am sorry.

FYI, the movie was a production of Amazing Facts, produced by Doug Batchelor, who is a Seventh-Day Adventist (a Protestant church who keep the Seventh day Sabbath of the Bible), as well as most of the pastors in it, who are from differing SDA uni’s. They are as far from Lutheran as possible. Lutheran is a stone’s throw from Catholicism; indeed, it has pretty much reunited with the Catholic Church. Have you been following the news? This movie shows the gradations of Christianity from its inception at Christ’s death and resurrection, through the Reformation (Martin Luther). It was after Luther and the Reformation, that Protestantism was born. There were no Protestants before that. This movie does not promote Lutheranism, it merely shows the capstone of the Reformation and how Martin Luther shook the foundations of the apostate Holy Roman Church. After the Reformation and the invention of the Gutenberg Press, the Bible once more belonged to the people. That’s Protestant History 101. Adventists are completely different from Lutherans. Their religion is based on Sola Scriptura, a “Christian theological doctrine which holds that the Christian Scriptures are the sole infallible rule of faith and practice.” Lutherans are far from that; they are basically Catholic, which goes by what the Pope says. The Pope, according to the Vatican, is the Vicar of Christ on earth; if you break it down, he even has power over Jesus. Whoa… Now you know why Protestants fraction-ed off. Catholics and Protestants have been at war for centuries. European history is littered with the bodies of martyrs, armies and rulers, who have fought for power through the Church. That is European History 101. I know it like you know the Civil War, yes?

I did not share this movie with you to impress you, or anything else that you might imagine. I shared it because it showed the gross underbelly of organized religion, something you and I discussed, and I thought you would find it interesting to see it in a chronological order…but instead you brought up how Christians were insulting pagans as uneducated people? What? That is a left field ball, yes? Nero, Caesar, Plato, they were all pagans, L, worshiping pantheons of gods. They were not little people; they were rulers and statesmen. All of Rome was pagan, rich or poor, high-born or low-born; all of Greece was pagan to Christianity. Yes, in simple semantics, it can mean villager, but when Christians use the word pagan, it is anyone who worshiped gods and pantheons outside of the monotheist god. I…I thought you were like me, being somewhat atheist, more agnostic, but we are actually worlds apart in how we perceive things. You have a deep rooted hatred of all things Christian that it bleeds out of everything you say. Like I would never deem to belittle Taylor at his own site, but you did, and continue to. You say you respect him, but it does not come across that way. FYI, I have about fifty or more family and friends following me on this site, family back home and family here. Most are secular like us, but they all say the same thing – you have issues. Your words are not discussion oriented, they are confrontational. There is a clear difference. I would never pick apart a Muslim’s faith, a Hinduist, a Buddhist at their own website, let alone at anytime, anywhere. Who am I to question their faith? Being agnostic, I truly do not care what you believe and I do not have to convince you of what I believe. Whether you agree with my POV is irrelevant to me. I will never mock you or pick apart any point of faith with you. Math, yes; quantum theories, yes; Plato’s Republic, definitely! :) But never religion. My da taught me that. I know witches who pray to trees. Freaking cool. A Christian can tell me about her faith and I will listen; maybe I will learn something. The only faith I have a problem with is radical Islam. Who does not? I would be equally appalled by radical Christianity. Throw in the threat of open borders bringing in hundreds of thousands of people from a diametrically opposed faith and culture system, and you are committing cultural suicide. I am growing up in a very different world from you.

My mother is typical French; by that I mean she is very secular. She does not subscribe to religion. France is one of the most atheistic countries in former European Christendom. It goes back to the French Revolution where the people wiped out the clergy, the rich, the titled and anyone else deemed an enemy of the new state. It was quite brutal, my history. Most of the French are agnostic or atheists, but not in a mean way. They are simply secular. It means nothing to be atheist or agnostic; it is quite normal, hardly a speaking point. If you keep a faith in France, you are somewhat of an oddity but people will respect you; the French are very curious of any faith you keep. How my father and mother got married is one of those amazing strokes of fate. My mother says she loved him almost within the first hour of their meeting. Da is wickedly humorous. He can slay with his twinkly eyes. He is a man’s man but he is very respectful of women. My mother had to kiss him first lest it never happen. In my da’s book, the woman makes the first move; the woman gives permission. They are still going strong after twenty-three years of marriage. My mother listens to my father’s words of faith and she finds them lovely. My father listens to my mother’s philosophy of life and he is enamored. Why? Because they are good people at heart who are extremely loving and respectful of others, and it is this aspect that binds their love. That is why they are still together, and not just together but very much still madly in love like two goofy teen-agers. Oi, they can be sooo embarrassing. ;) Get a room! :D Anyway, my point – in all the time I have known my mother, since my birth :) , I have never heard her confront someone’s faith under the guise of conversation the way you have with Taylor. You attack and Taylor defends, and then you call him ignorant for believing the way he does because he will not meet you half way. Wow, L… He is devoutly Christian; why would he do that? In all my years, I have always enjoyed asking people about their beliefs, but never in all that time have I ever told them what they should believe. You cannot even watch a Christian-bashing video without taking offense at the makers for belittling pagans. And bashing a movie because you wrongly said it was glorifying Lutherans? It was the Reformation! Martin Luther fired a bow shot. His push broke the yoke of Catholicism and hundreds of years of organized corruption. It is not about Lutherans and the modern Lutheran church. It has nothing to do with them. The movie was made by Adventists! …L! Come on. What is going on with you?

…I think what floored me was when you tried to mollify the situation by saying you still respect me, yada-yada, and that I should not be “defined” by this movie, as if I am being forgiven for sharing it with you. I have shared this movie with perhaps a hundred friends of all faiths and non-faiths, who want to know how Christianity was born in a nutshell. It is basically a cinematic Cliff Note. Had you ever heard of indulgences before until this movie? I did not. I thought that was wickedly interesting. Who knew? In the end, it is just a movie, L. It is nothing. It is a very compact bon mot. You were not meant to choke on it. It was never meant to be a movie that defined me, or for you to go off on a tangent on how bad the makers of the movie were to insult pagans, or glorify Lutherans. Bon sang. I am…very young and very stupid. Da was right. Never get involved in a land war in Asia…

I will never jump into a convo between you and Taylor again. I just muck things up. It sucks being a kid sometimes. I am so naive to think I could bring you two together. …Da is laughing at me. So uncool.