Hey there Lisa…
Really cool comment. Sorry I missed it until now. Would have definitely responded earlier if I had.

Why didn’t Daniel focus on Christ’s first coming? That is a really really intriguing question. Maybe because Isaiah had already done it? God was doing something very different here in Daniel. Daniel was immersed in the politics of power, and the trappings of human might. My guess as to why Daniel wasn’t given visions (that we know of) about Christ, the cross, and his resurrection, would be that the book is answering a different question about the earth, the world we live in, and kingdoms. And that question is – where is God in the middle of kingdoms that are abhorrently evil? I mean, Romans 13:1 specifically calls us to be accountable to the rulers of this earth: “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.” (I have a small question or two of God about the 3rd Reich here, but we are just going to slide past that one MASSIVE exception to the rule.) What does this scripture mean? Well, it just means that the world is better off with even a half assed – and morally bankrupt governmental power, than to have the world slip into anarchy. One only has to look at the various moments the United States has slipped into riots, and anarchy, to see that. Even a military state is better off for the humans of this earth than anarchy.

(If you want to digress a moment, human kind was given the perfect governmental system when God ruled the people of Israel directly… but what did they come to him asking for? A King… they wanted a king “like the other nations”. They were led by a pillar of fire by night, and a column of smoke by day… and they figured a human king was the way to go? We don’t deserve to have God as our direct ruler. We are basically idiots.)

So yeah, I believe that Daniel focused its sights on the power constructs of this world. It told of the power of the day, and it predicted accurately the power to come in the near term. That is a sign to unbelievers of today, that the Bible is legit. That the Bible accurately predicted the comings and goings of entire empires. That’s utterly impossible, minus some sort of spiritual intervention. And his accurate predictions of the kingdoms that come immediately afterwards actually give credence and credibility to his longer term predictions. The only thing better was his standing in a lion’s den. I guess you could discount that as a children’s story? I guess? But how do you discount his accurate prediction of world empire movements?

When I read about Daniel genuflections – I took it to be just a habit, a ritual, that he picked up from the local culture. It isn’t prescriptive. It’s just telling us a detail about how the people of Babylon prayed, how Daniel prayed, and about the details of the day. Personally, I like to go to a random number generator and get a random number from 1 to 66, see what book of the Bible that corresponds with, and then randomly generate one of the chapters in that book. Is that God talking to me. Is that me telling you how to read your Bible? No! It’s just a habit I’ve come to enjoy. Practically, it gets me to read areas of the Bible that are less well trodden. Specifically, can God use random numbers to speak to me, sure. Will He? Dunno. The Bible regularly speaks to me… but is it the random numbers? Probably not. More importantly, it’s not something I would recommend you do. I also don’t necessarily recommend your praying in the direction of Jerusalem. Can you? Sure! Is there anything in Jerusalem of any real import? No. But one day, there will be. So maybe?

The problem that you have with Daniel’s entanglement is the reason I like Daniel. I am entangled with my American empire. I am trying to navigate being an American while simultaneously trying to be a Christian. I daily have issues of walking in faith within this world of massively materialy centered evangelicalism. Daniel walks among the Babylonians, but isn’t of the Babylonians. Daniel shares of the one true God to the king. And he refuses to bend his knee to this kingdom’s stupidity. I too have to do that. I have to live in this world, but not be of this world. But I get your point. I totally see how this book would be like a 2×4 to the face. Esther too is the same.

At the risk of having my house burnt to the ground – I really believe that a large swath of the current Church has lost its way. You have pastors espousing name-it-and-claim-it insanities (someone please walk me through that theology, and where in the Bible it comes from, because wow. Such an obvious theological fail.) and you have large swaths of churches that walk in lockstep with Trump and his lunacies. Oh oh oh, better yet, Jim Bakker and his silver “cure” for Covid!! And yet, I was just working with a church last weekend that worked to sponsor several thousand children out of extreme poverty in some of the poorest locations of the world. And this is mid-pandemic! Pretty amazing really. I have attended mind blowing cell church experiences with the local churches in Cancun, Athens, Lima, Addis, Manila, Seoul, all over the world… and have watched as these truly humble people have called out to God in mind blowingly humble and ardent ways.

But I would like to presume for a moment – that I can apologize to you on behalf of the corporate Church. I’m sorry that they have failed you so obliviously. I’m sorry that they are so entangled and have so obviously lost their way. But like that angel, standing silently in the fire with the men in Daniel, God – specifically Christ – is there with you… standing with you… walking with you. I know for a fact that He loves you, He totally gets your anger (oh, He is more angry than you will ever be – can’t imagine what a modern day Christ temple rampage would look like. That’d be an interesting writing exercise.) and He wants nothing more than for His church to return to its first love. We love bashing the Jews for their stupid moves (not crossing the Jordan when the spies came back and told what they saw, grumbling in the wilderness, desiring to go back to Egypt of all places, for wandering away to follow the local gods, passing their children through the fire as offering to said local gods, heck, killing the prophets, and stoning those sent to them, including Jesus. We too are too enamored with the power of the Church (pope much?) We too are too in love with our own words and theological arguments. We too are too enmeshed with the politics of the day. Hell, I sin daily in my own unique and horrible ways. I try to make it a unique sin daily, and not a ritualistic trap, but I still manage to screw up every day. I don’t get it right.

I would love to hear about that one time you sat and screamed. I’ve screamed at the internal workings of the church way more than once. But my dad was a pastor – so hahaha. But yeah, seriously, I’d love to hear about what happened and why. And apologize for those people too! I am sorry. But know this, God is chasing after you. Like the story of the prodigal son, he stands at the road, awaiting your return. With the fattened calf, the ring, the robes, he awaits for us all. And I need to hear this truth more than anyone. But He loves you so Lisa – more than you know. He really does love you. That’s the only truth I will die for… it’s the only truth worth really living for. The truth of just how much He really does love you.

Do you believe that you are outside of judgement, because Christ has already judged the living and the dead? Are you currently living outside of the possibility of sinning because Christ has already returned and set all things aright? I mean, that was his point in returning was it not? (Set aside the whole, His heading to Jerusalem, establishing His eternal throne, watch as the nations come to Him and pay Him homage, etc etc.)

I’m taking your advice to step back and look at the bigger picture to answer your questions, “what does a preteristic view buy you. What exactly does it say about the New Testament that helps?” Here we go!

#1 >> Because Paul tells Christians to eagerly desire spiritual gifts especially prophecy (1 Corinthians 14:1) there are believers today struggling to experience one (or more) of them. Preterism helps us understand the gifts have passed (1 Corinthians 13:10 & Daniel 9:24). This is also very helpful in keeping us from being tricked by cults, false religions, or people around us who claim they received a word from God. If God sealed up vision & prophecy in the first century, then we know people like Joseph Smith and Muhammad are lying when they make claims to be a prophet of God after the first century.

#2 >> The Bible tells Christians who are married to live as if they were not married, those who are sad as if they were not, and those who are happy as if they were not (1 Corinthians 7:29-31). Preterism explains the historical context around Paul’s commands to the believers in Corinth so that we don’t feel the burden to live that way today. The time was short for the Corinthians — it is not short for us today.

#3 >> There are critics who say Jesus was a false prophet because he said three times at the end of Revelation he would return soon (Rev. 22:7, 12, 20) and it’s been 2,000 years and supposedly nothing has happened. The critics claim the scoffers in 2 Peter 3:4 were correct in asking, “Where is this coming he promised?” If Jesus has not returned and if a generation lasts 40 years, then over 45 generations of the scoffers’ descendants could have asked the same question and still be asking it today! Preterism shows that Jesus is not a false prophet, thus it points out how wrong the scoffers were to question Jesus. The Messiah returned like he said he would and proved the scoffers wrong.

#4 >> Some believers feel stressed by the idea that they might experience the Great Distress unequaled from the beginning of the world until now – and never to be equaled again (Matthew 24:21). Preterism shows us that this is behind us and so we don’t have to worry about ever going through that event.

#5 & #6 >> There’s a pattern throughout church history of people being led to believe the signs of Christ’s coming are taking place and then nothing happening. “The Antichrist is here!” and then nothing happens. It’s stunning how many times this happens over and over. Francis Gumerlock wrote a book titled, “The Day and the Hour” which looks over the previous 1,900 years and lists the many, many failed predictions of the end of the world based on a misunderstanding of Christian prophecy. A recent example would be the attention given to Hal Lindsey’s book, “The Late Great Planet Earth” in the 1970s. In 1994 Hal Lindsey wrote another book and said, “In fact, looking at the state of the world today, I wouldn’t make any long-term earthly plans.” Preterism protects the Church from being led astray over and over by false predictions, and preterism protects us from the mentality to not make plans for the future.

#7 >> In Genesis 3:15 God predicted Satan’s head would be crushed, and in the book of Revelation we are told Satan would end up being tormented for ever and ever in the lake of burning sulfur (Rev 20:10). Preterism points out that Paul tells the believers in his day that “The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:20) and that the words of the prophecy of the book of Revelation were not to be sealed up because the time was near. This means the Bible teaches the end of Satan was to occur soon in the days of Paul and John. This is definitely great news!

To summarize : What does preterism buy you?
#1 >> Protection from people who claimed or are claiming to have visions and/or the gift of prophecy after the first century.
#2 >> A biblical basis for living a full, robust marriage. No holding back. If the time is short, then we are told to hold back.
#3 >> Silence from the scoffers.
#4 >> Comfort from knowing the Great Distress is not waiting for us in the future. It is behind us.
#5 >> Protection from false claims that end time prophecies are occurring right now.
#6 >> A biblical worldview/mentality to plan for the future.
#7 >> Knowledge of Satan and his forces being totally defeated. He will no longer be attacking anyone.

Concerning your statement that Jesus has not come back and he will return in our future by riding a white horse ready to judge the nations (Revelation 19:11-21), if Christ’s return is to occur like you said, then John would have been told to seal up those words of the prophecy in Revelation in order to be unsealed at a future time. Yet we see the opposite being said. Not only was John told to not seal the words of the prophecy of the book, because the time was near, but the very first verse of Revelation tells us that its contents are what God gave Jesus “to show his servants what must soon take place.” This includes Christ’s return on a white horse to judge the nations. I’m not going to say I know if the horse is metaphorical or literal, but I do know the original readers of Revelation believed the coming of Jesus was soon to them. Why? Because near the end of Revelation Jesus told them directly these three statements : “Behold, I am coming soon!” “Behold, I am coming soon!” and “Yes, I am coming soon.”

Thank you for the opportunity to share my thoughts on the book of Daniel and on preterism.

Your website pulled me in through your movie reviews and now your essays on books of the Bible have me looking around even more.

Liked your comment on Matthew – thanks for that Spence. But I am not a proponent of preterism, which, is what I believe you are espousing here. That the judgement had already occurred, no? I still believe that Jesus is coming back. He has not. He will return and ride in on a white horse ready to judge the nations. Which he clearly has not done yet. I personally believe that the this generation is in reference to the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. But step back and look at the bigger picture, what does a preteristic view buy you. What exactly does it say about the New Testament that helps? Yes, we still have the chaos of Pretrib/post-trib/mid-trib… and my view is not conventional at all on those ideas. I also hold a controversial view that Earth (new earth) will become the new heaven. We know that Christ will setup his kingdom in Jerusalem, and during the millennial reign, the nations will come and pay homage to him or the lands will not receive rains for their crops. (Zach 14:17) But that is another topic entirely.

Basically, I have met several people that have espoused similar views on preterism before, and it really just doesn’t add up to me.

Below are some very interesting details in Daniel that will help your reading in other books in the Bible :

#1 >> Daniel is told to close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end (Daniel 12:4 & 9). This is in contrast to what John was told in Revelation 22:10 “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near.” and in Revelation 22: 6 “The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.””

The conclusion : Whatever John is talking about in the book of Revelation was about to take place in his day in contrast to what Daniel wrote down not taking place soon in his day.

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#2>> Daniel 12:11 mentions the “abomination that causes desolation” as something/someone in the future to Daniel. This ties directly to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-16 ““So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”

Jesus also said, “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” (Matthew 24:34) which puts the prophecy of the abomination of desolation in his day / in his generation.

The conclusion : Whatever Daniel and Jesus are talking about concerning the abomination of desolation must have taken place before the generation Jesus was talking to passed away.