First, allow me the courtesy of informing you, that if you have yet to see this movie, do leave. This isn’t a review of inception (the movie was utterly fantastic, go see it right away, how’s that for a review?) but rather a discussion of one possible interpretation of said movie. Also, if you are interested in a specific discussion surrounding the totems of the movie and how they do or do not work feel free to take a gander. And by the way, the layer diagram I based this blog upon has made the rounds recently and was even hailed out on MTV apparently. Yikes! You can see the discussion here. And I’ve recently done a Top 10 Questions of Inception as well that some of you might be interested in as well. Right, well then, with that housekeeping behind us, let us away then…
When I first walked out of the theater – I was pretty clueless. I was still coming down from the euphoria that I’m sure washes over most any normal viewer:
“Awww, he got back to his kids. How fantastic is that?”
“Oh, But what was that one bit – and why did that happen – and how the heck did he… “
And eventually as I continued to ponder the movie more and more the walls came tumbling down. I mean, really, this is a Nolan movie after all. What was I expecting? So this is just one man’s opinion of what actually might have happened right in front of our eyes. The layer below the layer, if you will. And to walk you through it the most succinct way possible let’s go down to the bottom dream layer and work our way back up to the “top”. From the deepest dream all the way back up to the very “realest” reality experienced.
After dying, Saito goes adrift in his own limbo world
I can hear you now. “SEVEN? What the HECK?!” Trust me. It’ll make sense soon enough. But yes, I believe there are seven (not counting the splinter levels that run parallel to the main dream layers we see mind you. Like the two initial dream layers we see with Saito, etc.) stacked levels of Inception goodness piled one upon the other. I could actually argue for a couple more without much effort, but I’ll stick with the ones I know I can easily prove with facts laid out from the movie.
So, remember with me for a second. Saito gets shot in layer 1 of the inception gig. Right? He’s hurt pretty badly. The lower he goes in the dreams the less impact it has on him… but none the less, he’s not in good shape. Then comes the final stand in the Inception gig’s level 3 – the Alps fortress. He tosses the hand grenade down the ventilator shaft and dies. From there we are told that those who die that deeply sedated go into a limbo world potentially never to return and their minds turn to mush. Cobb knows that he either needs to get Saito back from Limbo or he will spend the rest of his life in jail for killing his wife.
The reason I believe this dream layer is a completely different layer than layer 6 – “Cobb & Mal’s Limbo layer” because it is the same dream layer that we see earlier (both sequentially and chronologically) in the movie that is within Saito’s dream. And even though the movie states that Limbo is a shared void populated by the last inhabitant (Cobb) I still think that we’ve crossed over into Saito’s own dream-limbo world somehow. Visually it is very clear that this is the same location we visited earlier.
Level 6, Mal & Cobb's Crumbling Dream World
Level Six is a fascinating world. We catch glimpses of it on and off throughout the duration of the movie. But its only at the end we learn the true reality surrounding what happened in this place. Ariadne and Cobb dive down one more layer in the hopes of finding Saito before slipping off to never-never land. They encounter Mal – and she implores Cobb to wake up. To come back to the world of reality. Cobb dismisses her as a projection of himself. A shade of a memory that he is unable to do justice to.
And remember the very sad truth we learn here? Cobb knows inception is possible because he’s done it before. Right? He’s done it to Mal. And that idea festered there in her brain until she finally agrees to take the train to anywhere – as long as they were together. So, after getting the kick, they arrive at the “real” world – but Mal for some odd reason is still plagued with the idea that it isn’t the real world BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY ISN’T. Cobb watches his wife go insane only because his implanted idea is working – they have not woken up and she knows a truth that even he isn’t aware of. She can’t take it anymore and she seemingly jumps to her death – but in fact this is just her kick – her escape to the very real world awaiting them above.
Level 5 - The Final Inception Dream Layer where the idea is implanted.
This level is pretty straight forward. Well, as straight forward as anything in a Christopher Nolan storyline anyway. The final goal here was to implant the idea in Robert Fischer Jr.’s mind – that his father actually did love him. That he was only disappointed in the fact that he worked so doggedly to follow in his own footsteps. The team successfully accomplishes the goal – with the final scene there in the vault with Fischer’s father dying and recreating everything Jr. understands about himself.
The only thing I would like to add here is the fact that Fischer Jr.’s catharsis in the vault is about as real as it gets. Its no less real if he were dreaming – no less real if Cobb is dreaming. Jr. comes to an awareness and to a reality that leaves him absolutely changed. That is the overriding theme in this movie – catharsis and change. To be moved to a new understanding and to a new perspective that was misunderstood before. I believe this is Nolan’s one true goal for everyone in this movie – and Cobb is the only individual that hasn’t come to this much needed catharsis – this grand awakening.
Level 4 - Inception Layer 2 the gambit doubles back on itself
Definitely one of the coolest Dream Layers in all of Inception. This is the one we see so much of in all the trailers. The fight scene in the hall way of the hotel as the van is falling off the bridge sends everything into a gravitation-less state. Zero Gravity high-jinks ensue including a bucket load of dynamite and an elevator shaft. This layer complicated matters in that this is where they told Robert Fischer Jr outright that they were in his dream and only they could protect him.
Level 3 - Inception Layer 1 where the heist begins all wrong.
“WHO PUT THAT THERE!” Cobb yells wondering why the heck there was a train barreling down through the center of downtown LA. Thus begins the beginning of the most ambitious plot yet, to deposit an idea into the victim’s mind and get out without alerting him to their presence.
The movie – or Christopher Nolan rather – leads us to believe throughout the course of this movie that this layer is the true awake state reality. We are given clues that it is in fact that by seeing Cobb’s totem stop spinning as well as other corroborating details as we return time and again. But think about it a little more carefully and you’ll realize that things in this layer are off.
But don’t dreams seem logical and common sensical while dreaming them but they don’t add up afterwards? What about the chase scene where Cobb barely squeezes through the collapsing alleyway? Or the fact that Cobb’s children are still wearing the same clothes as the last time he saw them? Remember Cobb’s father’s impassioned plea? “Wake up Cobb! Come back to reality.” And what about the vagueness of this dream-technology that allows people to share dream-states? The only explanation we are given is that it was created by the military to create a place for training. Other than that its completely fanciful idea. But when we wake up it just doesn’t seem right. And what about his being an “extractor” at all. Don’t forget that in dreams we experience exciting and truly exceptional things – like Cobb’s being the best extractor in the world who is so good he could not only steal ideas, but he could also implant them as well.
Nolan places absolutely everything in his movies for very specific reasons. If you have any doubt of this then please go and watch Nolan’s movie The Prestige. And if you have already seen this masterful work of art and haven’t had your AHA! moment, then feel free to have your mind altered here. Or if The Prestige doesn’t grab you – then feel free to get messed with by Nolan’s Memento. Then come back and read my review here. But without further delay – let’s move on to the man behind the curtain – Layer #1!
Level1 - The Truly Real World
And here we have the final dream layer. This is without a doubt the saddest and most troubling layer of them all. In Cobb’s TRUE dream world – the top continues to spin… and he chooses to walk off into the sunset with his children instead. And while Mal stuck in this dream state Mal is by Cobb’s bedside pleading with him to wake up from the dream that is going on within her own mind. This explains how she was able to intercede occasionally and plead with him to come back to her. This isn’t Cobb projecting his memories – this is really Mal pursuing him. If it was his own projection would it be telling him to kill himself – really? No, this is Mol desperate to get her husband of 100′s of years (elapsed dream time anyway) back and convince him of his errors.
Regardless of how you view the Inception or whatever your theory might be… it is a fantastic movie. The only slight ding I would give it is that the entire movie is a falsehood. The quest to deposit an idea in the mark’s brain – dream. The attempt to save Saito from the limbo world – dream. His reunion with his father, mother and children – dream. Normally when heist movies pull this one on us (the painting was stolen before the movie began) I cry foul and pan the movie. But this time, it seems right. Sad, but right. Really? International dream thief? I mean, really?
And all the while, the only constant in this ever-shifting world is Mal. Everything she did was justified, if a bit extreme. She wasn’t the silent saboteur of Cobb’s dreams. She was the true friend and consistent love of his life. She wanted nothing more than to be by his side again and have him come out from inside this dream of hers they were having together. So at the end of the day – this isn’t a summer blockbuster movie… this is a love story. Its a story of madness and loss. All deep and dark refrains that the Academy should reward – though their memory is fairly short and their vision fair too myopic. Would love to hear your thoughts or arguments to the contrary! If this left you wanting more do check out my Top 10 List as well as my Totems Discussion.
I only just found this article, and I loving all of the discussions ya’ll are having. I have mixed views on the ending of the movie, so the theory that Cobb is still alseep and the suggested idea that all is well are both open in my mind. I wanted to mention some stuff that keep popping up every here and there that I want to answer to…
Old Under the Train – It was explained earlier Toddnay, but I saw the issue getting mentioned again so I’ll re-quote it:
“The movie initially shows the couple being run over by the train as young people because of the shock factor you get later when it shows a little clip of them growing old and getting run over as old folk.”
Shrinking Alley in India – Skeptical about whether or not this was something put it to hint at the possibility of Cobb’s dream. I’ve traveled a little and I know, especially in small city areas of south and south-east Asia, uneven or asymmetrical alleys and streets are fairly common. It might have just been placed there for the purpose of causing thrill in the chase scene. Feel free to call me out on this one.
Unchanging Kids – This is arguable. Although I’ve only seen the movie once, I don’t recall Cobb saying how long it had been exactly since he saw his kids. Mol’s ‘suicide’ could have all been recent, and therefore Cobb’s guilt and trauma from Mol’s death would have been an understandably powerful ring in his mind, and therefore her ideas and her ‘madness’ would be much more potently personified. Once again, feel free to call me out on this.
“I have to protect my investments.” – Saito’s roll is supposed to be a very, VERY powerful one. It is not uncommon for high ranking CEOs to have a private security ready and following particularly valued… “investments”, so to say. Also, with that line… I dunno, but Saito seems to have a larger quantity of awesome lines to say… (C’mon! As if YOU didn’t at least smile when he said “I bought the airline”!)
One Phone Call – Now this… it /does/ seem unrealistic for one phone call to change Cobb’s whole situation in America. But, then again, this may be a hint to Cobb’s 2nd Layer, or it might just be a quick-fix loophole on Nolan’s part. Nolan is too brilliant for this to be a loophole, but–like I said–I’m open to either being the truth.
Accessing Dreams is Unrealistic – It’s the setting of the movie, if it did not exist, then how would everything else in the movie happen…? I dunno, can’t go in-depth with this except say that it’s the main concept of the movie… *waves continuity flag*
I quite liked the idea of Cobb’s happy ending, but then again, I’m also open to the idea that he is stuck inside a 2nd layer. Also wanting to give this an honorable mention, but (assuming that all the people in Cobb’s 2nd layer are all projections) is Cobb’s father, Miles, also a projection? Cobb mentioned that his father was a the one who taught him how to access the human mind. So was Miles ACTUALLY there, trying to persuade him to wake up (as quoted)? If not, then why does he drop hints and quotes? But, if so, then why does he not tell Cobb straight up as well? I don’t think we gave enough attention to Miles’ character, because I believe that this is crucial. Remember that Cobb and Miles’ relationship as a father and son could easily be representing some sort of reflection on Fischer Jr and Snr’s relationship as well, seeing as on one hand, we have a son who was convinced to make his own future somewhere away from his father, and we also have a son who made his future based on what his father taught him.
Also, if there was a layer 1, how did Cobb get so heavily sedated and so deep into layer 2? There are theories of his coma, but then there is lacking evidence of how that happened. Usually, there would have been some sort of flashback or memory floor showing something dangerous being done to/by Cobb that would result in it… Can’t take a “leap of faith” without any evidence, now can we?
Also, if they really were in a dream, why didn’t Mol pull the Mr. Charles move on Cobb in the 2nd layer? Well, she does not even appear to be in the second layer at all, so how could that be a dream if Mol had access to Cobb’s dreams?
Also, another honorable mention I just remembered now is Mol’s suicide. As a forensic student, I feel that her condemning Cobb using suicide seems a little feeble in its depth… Allow me to explain:
Although she stated that she had sent her lawyer a testimony of Cobb’s threats and such, we all know that if it really were looked into–interviewing family, kids and such–reports would show that they did have, in fact, a loving relationship, and their kids would even mention that their mother was acting strange (quoted from the movie, by Mol to Cobb in front of their kids “They aren’t our children!”). Also, the flaws regarding the hotel. If looked into, it would have been uncovered that that Mol’s time of death was very near the same time Cobb would have been reported to have checked in. If it was that hotel room was prepared by Mol beforehand, she should have gotten there earlier, and that would have been reported as well. There would have also been no reports of loud noises coming from that room after Cobb’s arrival, which would have been necessary if all that furniture and glass was toppled over, there might only be reports taken of loud noise BEFORE he arrived. Also, there would have been a serious lack of Cobb’s fingerprints in the crime scene, also it would have shown in the morgue that Mol’s body fell without having the marks to prove a struggle against Cobb… well, without any marks on it at all, which would greatly contrast the room being torn apart.
With Cobb having a pretty solid alibi against his wife’s accusations, it would be pretty difficult for the system to pin Cobb down with his wife’s murder with only her written statement as evidence.
Oh! I just remembered again! I wanted to ask…
Do any of you know what Mol meant when she said to Ariadne in the Cobb’s basement level,
“Do you know what it is like to be a lover? To be one half of a whole?”
(I think that’s how it goes. I can’t remember off the top of my head…)
It seems to be a little out of place, if you ask me…
Mal is questioning the depth of the experience of Ariadnes experience of being on love. Ariadne is honest in her answer and remains humble in front of Mals overbearing presence.
Mal is also saying their love is a true love where both partners are one half of the other. Which explains severely Cobb’s messed up brain over her death and his involvement in her death.
I’d agree with your shrinking alley view. This scene isn’t trying to get is to doubt if Cobb is dreaming or not. Its a chase scene between him and COBOL who he has failed twice (once in the prologue comic and again in the movie) and has consequently been on the run from.
The kids do change from all his memories of them to the ones at the end. They are similar though as intended to make the final scene more dramatic and suspenseful. There are also two sets of kids in the credits.
The protecting my investments and the one phone call are scenes showing Saitos power. He is in the energy business and very successful. Cobb questions his power in the helicopter scene and says he has to take a leap of faith then goes on to wanna grow old alone filled with regret and die alone stuff that is repeated throughout the movie. This is a movie with a device that can dream share…. its a movie and in movies not everything will be realistic especially in a sci-fi, suspense heist movie. Saigon is powerful. Has to be taken at face value otherwise movie makes even less sense
Miles is an important character just not shown how important in the movie or comic. Would be cool to see a movie sequel that shows miles teaching Cobb. But to say Miles in actually in the dream share of the movie to try to get Cobb to see he’s dreaming is stretching it sooo much. He has barely any lines in the movie and is in two short scenes. Taken in the context of his character role and Cobbs and the conversation they are having his statement to Cobb ” come back to reality, please” makes sense. Cobb just confessed to not being the architect because Mal wont let him….Mal is dead….They both know this. Cobb does need to come back to reality.
Mal could have done a thousand things to get Cobb to wake up had this all been a dream and she was trying to wake up Cobb. But that theory is so flimsy. If its based on Male character in this film his wife is a complete um b-word. She’s not trying to help Cobb. She is the antagonist of this movie as stated by Nolan and portrayed in the film. She’s a crazy projection from Cobb’s messed up mind.
The murder set up scene can be over analyzed (just as the rest of the film has been). The idea Nolan has to us is Mal was incepted by Cobb in limbo to get out of limbo but the idea continues to grow like a cancer in Mal’s head until she is certain she is still dreaming even in reality. Mal trys to convince Cobb its all a dream, specifically that they are both in his dream, but she fails because Cobb is the sane one at this point. Mal then plots to compelled Cobb to jump off the building with her by giving him an ultimatum to jump or go to jail forever. Either way he never sees his kids so Mal hopes he jumps to be with her. She gets declared sane by 3 psychiatrists, writes a letter to her lawyer that states Cobb threatened her and she fears for his life, then makes a struggle scene on the hotel room Cobb just checked into that Mal has also checked into thus her body on the concrete would be assumed to have fell from Cobb’s room. This leads Cobb to have to flee the US. That’s it. We could pick it all apart and say Cobb over reacted and the idea is crazy, but its what the writer has from us to explain the movie and to accept. To not accept it is just to see the movie for what it is…..a movie.
Sabrina,
Loved your question regarding Mal’s two halves of a whole statement. Definitely stuck out like an enormous sore thumb to me too. Nick is spot on in his response that it’s indicative of their gi-normous they have for one another. But I’ll go one more and entertain the fact that there might be tons more going on here. And none of it has anything to do with whether or not Cobb is still dreaming or not. So Nick, you can breathe a sigh of relief there! Heheh.
Ariadne is an interesting character for a million reasons. The standard female interest is the love interest – right? She’s broken the stereotype there. There seemed to be a bit of an odd chemistry between the two that led to think more about their roles and involvement with one another. Take for example Ariadne’s constant questioning and probing into his life. Does the idea of Ariadne as Cobb’s shrink not cross anybody else’s mind? (Adam Rosenberg takes it another step further when he posits not only is everything a dream but it’s one big extended therapy session – check it out here: http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/07/19/inception-attempting-to-address-the-big-wtf-questions/ . Rich Knight at Cinema Blend even goes further to say every character is a slice of Cobb and they are all striving towards catharsis – http://www.cinemablend.com/new/What-If-Inception-Were-Analyzed-By-Dream-Experts-19638.html – which is basically just Jacob’s Ladder all over again.)
But I would go even further than the shrink concept to say that I think between Ariadne and Mal we have his wife’s true combined character. The goodness of Ariadne and the compassionate care we see along with the biting truth of Mal gel to give us a perfect picture of how Arthur described her as truly beautiful. Ariadne plays the role of innocent neophyte too perfectly to be legit. I won’t say it is Ariadne that is inceiving Cobb as some have said – but I do think her role is way too archetypal to be real and true.
So when Mal asks Ariadne if she knows what it means to be a lover it is laced with meaning. Extra-Meaning that you’d be a dolt not to see. Is Mal upset with her? Jealous? Is Ariadne innocent in her motives towards Cobb? Purely platonic? It’s complicated obviously. None of the above options ring true and yet none of them ring false either.
Cobb/Ariadne/Mal = a very complicated theorem with a near infinite number of possibile outcomes depending on how you fall on the original equation inputs. Fascinating conjecture and nothing else. If conjecture isn’t your thing then please just move along, there is nothing to see here – these aren’t the droids you’re looking for.
As a side note Nick – I’d love to hear your response to this: http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html
Its sad but true. Ariadne is real and true. I know that breaks with your is all nonsense theory of a movie but nowhere do we get the impression Ariadne is false. She’s a curious young college woman invited to take part in something she never dreamed possible. She is the only woman on the team and the most likely to not take Cobb’s “don’t worry” blockade that aurthur keeps accepting when he tries to probe. Ariadne is new to the team and this dream sharing. She notices the insanity of Cobb when she gets stabbed by Mal, and her feeling is only confirmed the more time she spends with Cobb in and out his dreams.
I read the church article around when it came out. I would say the article sure jumped the gun…
Right now the movie is mainly in theaters. When it gets released on DVD there will be less who go with your and chide explaination. The majority of people have seen this movie once. Then there are those who seen it twice. But limited are those who have seen it far too many times like you and I have. When they get the chance to rewind and pause and read subtitles people will come out of the darkness and out of the theory of a movie that is not seen, not written by Nolan, and not in theaters. That’s the beauty of my movie I saw. You can see it also. Its actually in theaters!! Other theories exist online and in peoples heads only.
If you want to know I do believe Nolan has made a movie that exposes clearly what type of thinker a person is. A feeler and an analyzer. All the people who claim its all a dream are feelers. They really don’t have a theory based on what happened, What was seen, and what was heard…its based on what didn’t happen, was wasn’t seen, and what wasn’t heard.
Also it would have been wiser to post an article or interview of someone who was involved in the movie say Yusef?? Haha but I’m sure you read that one already!!!
CHUD haha damn spell check!!!
Nick,
Yes I’m aware you believe everything is real and literal. Got it. But even if I agreed and thought he was awake at the end there would still be room for discussion around motifs – themes – etc. But regardless, I get it. I do like your movie as Rorschach Test. And totally agree.
Taylor
Or you could have referenced the Unscripted Moviefone interview with Leo and Ellen. Leo states the move takes place in four levels of he subconscious….he must not really “get” the film huh….
Also Ellen describes her character in a strikingly different way than your theory of her…. she must be confused also.
It would make sense to doubt the ending. Its the part where Nolan wants you to doubt it. From just waking up on the plane, to nobody talking, to miles being there, to being reunited with his kids in the same house as in his memories and the kids almost wearing the same clothes and being in the same area to the spinning of the top and cutting to black. Great ending. If there is a realistic debate its the ending. But only the ending. What gets me is the ending got people questioning the WHOLE movie. Similar to Mal questioning reality people started to question the things try saw and heard then totally flipped the movie on its head and came up with a movie that doesn’t exist on screen at all. I thought that was kind of nuts to an extent but also fun debate.
“Really? International dream thief? I mean, really?”
Haha Taylor! You’re doing it again! You have the same problem with the Prestige as you do with Inception. As odd of an explanation (and quite unbelievable) as it would be in the real world, in a movie it’s perfectly plausible, if undesirable.
That having been said, I’m no longer sure what we agree/disagree on anymore haha I keep flip-flopping.
Sup all,
Let me put my thoughts in chronological order as I read them…
Frankly, I was actually surprised at the answers I got to my question about the whole Mol/Ariadne/Cobb thing… It took me this long to try and think of an answer myself, but if Cobb since it was Cobb’s dream, why didn’t anyone mention that perhaps Mol knew she was a projection in his dream and was voicing her loneliness by rhetorically questioning her own purpose in Cobb’s mind. “I’m his wife, but I’m not actually… it breaks me inside, and here is a girl who does not belong here… she knows no shame to come and hurt mine and my husband’s subconscious relationship!” is what I thought was going through Mol’s head… if that makes sense to all of you!
Also, totally loving how Nick is really veracious on the anti-7 layer theory. We need a devil’s advocate to allow others to argue. It’ll make a really heated debate, so as to result with something with more depth.
Something else I want to clarify, and tell me if I’m wrong. Yusef is not a “dream thief” so to say, right? He just went along with the group because they needed a chemist who could make a heavy sedative. He doesn’t have a totem, right? Therefore, he does not normally infiltrate dreams? I know Saito was the tourist of the group, but was Yusef, too (technically speaking)?
I cannot see how Mal could be seen as a good Guy or saying the truth in anyway. She’s the bad, troublemaking anogonist of this film. She’s always causing trouble, always. She brings nothing good to the table. She merely brings doubt, regret, guilt, frustration and trouble to the movie. But then again that is her role in the movie as Cobb’s confused and dead wife projected by Cobb. Mal is in no way in the reality going in to Cobb’s dreams to save him. We can easily see Ariadne trying to help Cobb, but Mal trying to help Cobb…that’s a huge stretch and maybe even more than just a stretch….it holds no evidence and is ludicrous
sorry, you’re missing some mechanics of the world. If everyone was awake around Cobb, they could employ any number of ways to wake him up. Kicks, Inception or their own gambits. You’re assuming he is impervious. They would have done so, long ago.
I’ve been trying to stay out of the discussions and lay low, but this one is too pervasive a question to let slide.
Who’s to say they aren’t inceiving Cobb right in front of our eyes? Some popular theories propose that exact thing (Ariadne as counselor, Saito as co-collaborator, inception team as therapy group … the list goes on.) and those are some of the less extreme theories. But yeah, I actually do think Mal is visiting him somehow. I mean really, she did stab the guy in the middle of all this… If that isn’t an overt attempt I’m not sure what is. Obviously her dream visitations are weakly supported but in my more romantic moments I do dig the concept of Mal injecting herself into Cobb’s dreams for that very reason.
But as far as the mechanics go – I don’t think we see eye to eye. In my diagram I show that Cobb is currently left in level 2 at the end of the movie. So close, yet so far away. And sure all they would have to do is roll Cobb’s body out of his hospital bed and voilà, Mal has her Cobb back. Right?
But I don’t think we really have any clear idea of where Cobb is at the end of the movie. None. Truly, honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if he we burrowed into Limbo like a tick. And the closer to the “surface” he gets the further away he is. I am sure this is driving the more literal of you out there nuts. That’s fine, just buy into the idea the top stopped and be on your way. No big thing.
So, just as rolling Cobb & Mal out of their beds wasn’t an option to get them home from 50 years of Limbo purgatory similarly, it’s not an option for Cobb at the end either.
Being trapped in limbo actually nicely coordinates with the whole forgetfulness, absent mindedness, loss of time space that occurs there. And similarly it makes sense that either others would/could parachute in to attempt to save him (similar to how Cobb works to save Saito as well). Or splinters of Cobb’s personality (projections) manifest themselves in varying ways throughout his time in Limbo. Either way makes sense.
By the way, I never said the guy was impervious. But he is working his tail off to get a grip on reality, that is for sure. To hold fast to what he thinks he knows of reality. I had said once and I’ll say it again, I am convinced that Mal (whether real or a projection) was the voice of truth throughout the movie. Sure, she was biased and fairly hacked… But truthful and very insightful.
I’m sure you aren’t happy with that answer at all, but it is what it is.
I agree with Sabrina, and love it that Nick, you and I are exactly opposite of one another. You are like my doppleganger or something! You complete me! Two halves a whole! Ok, so that’s a bit much. But your obvious disdain for Mal so obviously juxtaposes with my absolute love her… and my believing she is the only one who understands what’s going on. Its brilliant. You and I should take our conversation on the road – MSNBC, CNN, Larry King, etc. We’d knock ‘em dead. But it makes
As for your thoughts on Mal Sabrina, I personally wouldn’t have thought of that because that would mean she was self aware. Either you need to believe that Mal is actually dream-sharing into Cobb’s coma-dream, what have you…. or you believe she’s just a projection of Cobb’s subconcious. I would love to argue she’s actually visiting Cobb, which would then allow for that kind of recursive/selfawareness logic that you are presenting here. Then heck yeah, I totally would think she’d be at least a little bit jealous of Ariadne. (Whether warranted or not.) But I love the logic flow you present here.
Makes absolute and perfect sense to me. And it isn’t just that Ariadne’s young, and pretty, etc… its that they are now sharing something that Mal and Cobb shared together before. Mal and Cobb were the initial explorers of his uncharted world. They invented new ways of thinking about dreams and exploring them. They did it all together. And now Cobb is marching around this landscape with some other woman? Totally think that’s valid. Well said.
Right. Yusuf, totally was just along for the ride. We aren’t sure if he even dreams much himself. But like you said, there were a number of tourists on this trip: Yusuf, Saito and even Ariadne. She was only coming because Cobb didn’t want to tell the others about Mal. Architects don’t normally go apparently. They are just there to design the levels. But she is such a big player in the movie she designed her own totem. (Which looking back could have been huge seeing as though she quickly finds herself in Limbo.)
Recently just watched it another time and I just love the emotional power of this movie. Oh, I will say this. I watched very specifically for a coupl things that really stood out in all of your comments here. For example Cobb seeing Mal vaguely out the window after waking up in the basement at Yusuf’s. The old hands/young people, and the young hands/old people bit and finally I know how Mal & Fischer kick out of Limbo.
I can definitively say that the hands don’t switch. It may look like old hands because DeCapprio’s hands are chubby, but they are definitely young when they should be. Both walking together in Limbo and also while on the train tracks. Then later in the movie – as Cobb is telling Mal they’ve had their time together it reviews scenes of the past where they were young (walking together, and on the tracks) and they are all old then.
In regards to the scene after Cobb dreamed in Yusuf’s basement, Cobb is standing at the sink and it could very well be that he is seeing the anniversary appartment out the window of the bathroom. It could equally be argued that he is flashing back to what he saw in the dream. Each option is viable.
And finally, with regard to the kick for Ariadne and Fischer out of Limbo… they definitely didn’t get defibbed out. It was the jump that did it. Eames is nowhere near them as they awake. Eames must have used the defibrelator for signaling them of the coming kick up a layer… and then it was the jump that brought them up a layer. Makes zero sense in my mind though. But I saw it with my own two eyes. It definitively shows what happened if you watch for it. Hrmm. Going to have to go bang my head on a wall for a few minutes and come back to see if we can patch together the rules of this place. Oh OH oh OH!? (I’ll wait to describe this theory later. Want to piece it all together first.)
Yes me and Mr. Nolan appear to have that in common. We are your complete opposite. Nolan himself said he didn’t know what character was going to be an antagonist at first. Then decided it should be his wife….. antagonist….opposite of protagonist as you describe her.
Also you quote Mal from he scene where Ariadne without permission goes into Cobb’s “dream” and snooper around. She runs off from Cobb and sneaks to he basement where he has his projection of Mal locked up. So the quote you use makes complete sense in context. But take any quote out of context and anything makes sense. Also when they both wake up Ariadne yells at Cobb for keeping his projection of Mal locked away.
If you need any help understanding this movie don’t be too prideful to ask!
Fisher was defibbed. Ariadne was not.
You make me chuckle. Which is always good – so thanks for the humor! Never too prideful – I will always ask when I don’t know. Which is rare! heheh.
Hey, you are right, I agree with you… Fischer was defibbed… but only just to let them know that Eames was about to blow the building. (Remember the lightning in the sky?) But, no one was near Fischer’s body in the Snow Fortress before or after he jumps from the building in Limbo. The way he transports back up is DEFINITELY through his jumping off the building. Guaranteed. And you know I’m not making this up because it contradicts like 9 theories of mine. And I can’t make any sense of it. (Well, I have a working theory… but nothing that gels, or sings anyway. So where I want to understand the movie Nick – and you can help with this – if killing yourself in Limbo only moves you one layer – how the flip does Cobb & Saito get all the way back. They can’t kick themselves at a layer up. Not to mention the fact that Cobb is DEAD in Limbo and also by drowning in the van!! It makes no sense unless committing suicide in Limbo bounces you all the way to the surface. So Cobb & Mal died under the train… THEN WHAT? They still couldn’t have been at the surface. And suicide doesn’t work when you are that deep – it just sends you to Limbo, where they just were. It’s illogical.)
Bottom line – the defib was only a communication tool. Like the music in the other layers. Watch it closely it is as clear as day.
Now as for Ariadne – believe you me, I understand the meaning of the word, antagonist. I get it. And I don’t disagree she’s the antagonist in this movie. But that’s only because Cobb hasn’t had his Philosopher’s Cave moment. The shadows on the wall aren’t REAL (please, don’t start again, I’m just explaining my point) he doesn’t know which way is up. So of course she doesn’t make any sense to him or to us.
So go through a thought exercise with me for a moment. Let’s say I’m right. You (Nick) are dreaming. Your whole life long… dreaming. (As much as that pains you to consider.) And you aren’t aware you are sleeping. If someone walks in and says that you are dreaming – obviously they are going to instantly become your nemesis. That guy has to be INSANE, for goodness sakes, right?!? Exactly. You don’t understand them. And at first they try to be reasonable. But they become more and more frantic as time goes by. Which is understandable – they care very much about you, but you aren’t getting it.
To put it another way – Mal is basically Cassandra from Greek mythology. She was blessed with the gift of foresight, but cursed with the fact that no one would listen to her. She was basically labeled as a head-case too.
I’m aware that Nolan has also labeled his movie as SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER ACTION MOVIE. Of course he’s not going to say its a heady-mental-mind-bender that’s complicated at times and other times very difficult to understand. That doesn’t SELL TICKETS.
I get it Nick that you don’t agree. Its all good. Really. I promise. But just understand where I’m coming from. I totally understand you believe its literal. Makes perfect sense. Got it. Could be. Definitely is one option.
You have to listen to what Ariadne says at the snow fortress to understand how she and Fisher get out. Its her idea and she explains how its works which convinces Cobb to try it. The defib does make lightening which is how Ariadne new they had to hurry up.
There is a big difference between Ariadne and Fisher and Cobb And Saito. Remember Yusefs sedative is too strong to get back to reality without synchronized kicks in each dream level they are on. Ariadne and Fisher ride the kicks back to level 1 then wake up in reality when the sedative wears off. Cobb and Saito die in every dream layer and are in limbo. But the sedative HAS worn off. They are in different circumstances. Their route back is realizing where they are and then dying. They would go straight home because no dream layers are left to go to (the dreamers are all awakened) and they weren’t under any sedative.
Now if they do get out of limbo is another question…..
But where I think you may have gone astray is Fisher was brought back to the snow fortress by Dames and the defibbing. That’s why he ended up only in level 3 at first before the other kicks. Ariadne got to limbo via the dream machine. So she goes back to where she’s hooked up to it which is level 3 also.
Lets pretend I were stuck in a Dreamworld and my wife was trying to communicate with me she wouldn’t spoil all my plans, shoot my friend in the leg, remind me constantly how I broke a promise that we’d grow old together and try to talk me into staying in Dreamworld in the basement and in limbo with my fake limbo kids, she wouldn’t grab a broken glass and try to kill my other friend Ariadne who is just trying to understand and help, she wouldn’t scale down from the roof and shoot Fisher.
Shed be nicer and more to the point.
Ok, here is the exact transcript of the conversation Ariadne, Cobb and Eames have in the snow fortress before Cobbe and Ariadne head down to get Fischer.
Eames: “What happened?”
Ariadne: “Mal killed Fischer…”
Cobbe: “I couldn’t shoot her. There’s no use in reviving him, his mind is already trapped down there. Its all over.”
Eames: “So that’s it then, we failed.”
Cobbe: “We’re done. I’m sorry.”
Eames: “Well, its not me that doesn’t get back to my family… is it? Its a shame, I really wanted to know what was going to happen in there. I really thought we had this one.”
Cobbe: “Let’s set the charges.”
Ariadne: “There’s still another way. We just have to follow Fischer down there.”
Eames: “We don’t have time.”
Ariadne: “But there will be enough time down there. And we will find him. Look, as soon as Arthur’s music kicks in, just use the defibralator to revive him. We can give him his own kick down below. You get him in there.” (pointing at the vault) As soon as the music ends you blow up the hospital and we all ride the kick back up the layers.”
Eames: “Well its worth a shot.”
So, Nick you are correct she says give him his own kick to bring him back. But that isn’t what happens on screen. We never see Eames paddle Fischer at all. But I will concede that that is how it works, even though it isn’t what is shown. But even so – it doesn’t make sense that Ariadne jumps, Fischer is kicked and Cobbe and Saito shoot themselves and proceed all the way back to the top.
Yes, the individual has to be conscious of the fact that they are in limbo before they commit suicide… but that still doesn’t clear up why sometimes its 1 layer and other times its 4 that the individual jumps. I don’t necessarily buy the “they jump to the next open layer” business. Just doesn’t make sense. Either they were there or they weren’t. But that’s just me.
We saw the lightening in limbo remember and we know that is from eames trying to revive Fisher.
Also you don’t go to the next open layer. Aridane got to limbo via the dream machine and so, according to the movie logic, she gave herself a kick by jumping and “awoke” in level 3 where she was hooked up to the dream machine that doesn’t follow the rules of being under yusefs extra strong sedative (because its a dream machine in a dream…don’t ask me how that works) so she wakes up from the kick as she normally would.
Do u got a bootleg copy? Can you transcribe the two conversations about how totems work. I remember there’s a conversation between Cobb and Ariadne where Cobb explains how his top works and then the scene with Aurthur and Ariadne where Aurthur shows her his dice. Does one of the specifically say if the totem indicates you are in someone else’s dream or is it just generally if you are in a dream at all?
Nah, I wish. Nothing as elegant as all that. But I do have a friend with a copy of the audio somehow. So I ask her to toss transcripts my way when she gets a chance. Helps to win/lose arguments we are having about how the logic works anyway.
I did, in my quotes blog – didn’t I? I think its there anyway. If it isn’t just yell and I’ll rectify that post haste.
I will post the transcript over in the comments section of the quotes blog just from an organizational standpoint. You can find it here: http://taylorholmes.com/2010/08/23/inception-quotes/
Check this out!
Amazing article on Inception and other similar films!
http://cinematicjackass.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/on-dreams-and-dreams-captured-on-film/
Oh, and great article by the way
Really opened my eyes to some stuff I wouldn’t have otherwise seen. Does anyone think the DVD Special Features will explain stuff? Or do ya think Nolan will leave it ambiguous?