The Prestige Explained
Revealing the Prestige’s Method – an eyes wide open review of Christopher Nolan’s magical movie The Prestige
“Are you watching closely?” Thus begins Christopher Nolan’s masterfully crafted period piece that seems to have a lot more going on than one might initially see occurring on the surface. This review assumes you’ve already watched The Prestige. If you haven’t, here’s what you, Click Here and watch, then come immediately back to discuss. Or if you don’t own this marvelous movie head out and pick it up. I probably have 4 copies for loaning and could use 3 more probably!!
To set the stage for the reveal – I really must quote R.J. Carter, a science fiction author and a Senior Editor of “The Trades”, and how let down he felt upon originally watching the movie:
“So why do I feel cheated?… Because after committing so much time and faith to the plot, I find out that the story is one of science fiction. Don’t get me wrong — I love a good science fiction story; just tell me in advance”… “So why do I feel cheated?… Because after committing so much time and faith to the plot, I find out that the story is one of science fiction. Don’t get me wrong — I love a good science fiction story; just tell me in advance.”
What Carter doesn’t realize is that he’s only understood the first two epiphanies. It is the third that makes the movie make sense. It is the third that makes the Nolans the most brilliant writers in cinema history. To convince you, here is Newsweeks thoughts on the movie:
“At the end of this dark entertainment three twists await: one you will certainly see coming, another you may have figured out just before it happens, and the final may be so tricky you won’t quite piece it all together until after you’ve left the theater.”
So the challenge is in front of us. There are THREE surprises awaiting the diligent. Let’s not waste time – we’ve got some discovering to do.
A Prestige Primer
The plot of the Prestige is simple at face value. We are presented with two young aspiring magicians. Angier (played by Hugh Jackman) a very good showman but less than stellar magician. And Borden (played by Christian Bale) a natural magician in every right but a bit dim in the showmanship category. The prime mover of the entire movie’s sadistic tendencies is a tragic event that ends up killing Angier’s wife and it is believed Borden is to blame. The two quickly develop a rivalry to end all rivalries reminiscent of the Montigues and Capulets that basically consumes them night and day. It begins with Borden and Angier racing to become the best magician in London and ends with mayhem, blood and death.
Possible Prestige Methods
The point of this review is not to speak to the surface level plot points of the movie, but rather to address a deficit I am seeing in the larger Prestige discussion arena. Many people that have seen the movie and have discussed the various intricacies gravitate more towards the more philosophical and moral nuggets held within. And that is a great discussion to be had – don’t get me wrong – but think all of these discussions completely miss the larger reveal – or Prestige if you will – that is going on here in front of everyone’s noses. So to that end I will first recount the more populist of theories out there that most ascribe (at least in one flavor or another). And then I will sketch out for you my version of how the movie played itself out.
We Have Seen The Populists And We Are Them…
When the dust of this movie settles for most people it is fairly clear, if not a bit disappointing, what happened throughout. But what makes this Populist theory so widespread and overwhelmingly popular is that you have to work to come to this conclusion. Its not a simple thing to understand this movie even at the most basic of levels. So, when most people rearrange the anarchic timeline in their heads and finally makes sense of that they then begin cogitating on the whole “reveal” with Borden and his twin at the finale. Once they get that bit they progress to the larger questions circulating around Angier and the Tesla machine. At this point the chaos is so thick and the hip-waders are so completely and totally mucked they’ll take even some of the more outlandish of answers as fact.
Where the disagreement within this camp lies is usually within the “How exactly did Tesla make the machine work”, “which Borden was hanged” or the “how many Angiers were there that drowned?” veins. The really adventurous within this camp may posit something as outlandish as – “The Tesla machine isn’t a cloning machine, it’s a teleportation machine that leaves a new clone behind” which creates reams and reams of discussion fodder. So all that to say, this Populist vantage on the movie takes the ending literally. The Tesla machine clones all those who enter and the only thing left to sort out is how do we dispose of the extras?
The Prestige’s Prestige…
The Man Behind the Curtain
The first point I would like to make in regards to this larger reveal within The Prestige would have to be a completely unrelated movie. Anyone who has experienced any of Christopher Nolan’s other movies will know, the Director of The Prestige is not afraid to layer ambiguity over ambiguity in order to create a powerful tapestry that ultimately overloads the senses. Memento is the perfect example of this illusion folded in on top of illusion with the intentional objective of avoiding a definitive answer to the problems played across the screen. The Prestige is yet another example of this, where we are confronted with constantly conflicting evidence that may or may not point in 42 different directions. All that to say, everything I am about to posit here and now was intentionally placed within the Prestige strategically by Mr. Nolan. I guarantee it. Now, as to whether or not my vantage on this movie is correct or not I will leave this question in your capable hands to ascertain.
What is the third reveal?
Quite simply put I believe that the Tesla machine is a sham and it doesn’t do anything but throw pretty sparks. Already many of you are hefting your rocks in order to stone me for heresy. To understand how I can posit something that contradicts everything we are told as the movie wraps up will take some effort. But if you will stick with me – and then if you watch the movie again – you will see not only how plausible all of this is but how necessary it is for the entire movie to make any sense at all.
The Prestige’s Prestige on AutoPilot
How can it possibly be? Let’s just cut to the chase and I will walk you through the explanation in a timeline format:
- Angier and Borden work together as plants in a show where Angier’s wife is accidentally killed.
- The two go their separate ways and begin developing their own shows.
- Borden and Fallon (Borden’s twin) develop the transporting man.
- Angier becomes obsessed with understanding the trick at all costs.
- Angier steals Borden’s notebook and realizes it would take him years to decipher.
- Angier captures Fallon and gives him back after Borden reveals the method/key – “Tesla”.
- Angier embarks on a trip to Tesla in order to have him build him a teleporting machine.
- Tesla is tipped by Borden of Angier’s goals and Tesla takes him on a wild goose chase.
- Angier “discovers” the hats and the cats and is convinced the machine works.
- Angier receives the machine under dubious circumstances.
- Angier learns that the machine in fact does not work and realizes he’s been duped.
- Angier begins plotting his revenge by staging a limited engagement of the new teleporting man.
- Borden visits both the show and the backstage removal of the tanks.
- Borden then goes onstage and then down below where he witnesses Angier’s double drowning.
- Borden is arrested for murder and put on trial.
- Angier – as Lord Caldlow – still wants to know Borden’s method and so he attempts to purchase the method for the drowning man from Borden while he’s in prison.
- Borden receives Angier’s journal and begins learning about Angier’s trip to visit Tesla.
- Borden discovers that Angier has apparently anticipated Borden’s murder of himself prior.
- Borden sells the transporting man trick in trade for his daughter’s safety.
- Angier visits Borden in prison to make him aware he’s won.
- Borden is hanged – says “Abracadabra” just beforehand.
- Fallon – now dressed as Borden – goes to Angier in his theater basement and shoots him.
- Fallon attempts to get Borden to notice his surroundings – Borden doesn’t bite.
- Fallon dies and Borden is reunited with his daughter.
- Roll Credits.
I have intentionally avoided explaining some of the stickier issues with this theory above. Instead I have differed a few of the more obvious rebuttals until later. But first, you have to admit that walking through the movie in its proper chronology along with this new view of how the events unfolded sheds quite a bit of light on certain aspects that you wouldn’t have noticed before. For example – why would Angier still be trying to get Borden’s method after having reproduced the trick with the Tesla machine? It logically doesn’t follow. He’d been duplicating himself successfully for months – why does he still need the method?
Or another anomaly: Towards the end Borden (not Fallon, but Borden) became obsessed with trying to figure out how Angiers accomplishes his final Teleporting Man technique. Recall Borden saying to Scarlet “All we know is that there’s a trap door! What’s going on under that stage?!?” So… explain that to me. If Borden was the one that directed Angiers to Tesla in order to get the cloning machine, why would he be so flummoxed by the trick? Wouldn’t it be obvious to Borden that his rival was using the same cloning methods as himself, only plotted out in a different way?
There are also other minor things that stand out as well, but I will leave those to you for now. More importantly would be for us to explain how such a contrary chronology is even possible by only watching what we are shown by Mr. Nolan.
The Narration
How can it be that a movie can physically get away with lying to our faces? The first (and maybe the most important exercise) thing we must consider is the source. Can you remember who does the narration of this movie? Yes, you are correct Cutter does narrate a fair amount. But who else narrates the action as it proceeds? No it isn’t completely accurate to say either Borden or Angier narrates. Actually if you look closely you’ll realize that the two key narrators in this story are Borden’s diary read by Angier and alternately Angier’s diary being read by Borden.
The next question that we must ask ourselves is this – can we trust Borden’s or Angier’s diaries? Obviously not. One of the greater sub-plot twists is the reveal to Borden that Angier is writing to him “from the dead”. Similarly, we feel Angier’s unfettered angst and loathing for Borden when Borden’s diary reveals that the entire document was crafted solely for his consumption. So, if this is the case, why should we believe a single thing that these sources have revealed to us? Right, so please keep that in mind as we continue forward.
The Motivations
If we consider both of the two main characters, Borden and Angier, what would we say that their main motivations are? For Borden I think it is fairly obvious that he is intent on developing the world’s best magic trick that will turn the world upside down. You recall his arguments on behalf of the bullet catch and his hopes for doing something new and exciting as opposed to the litany of tried and true tricks. Angier on the other hand feeds off of the love and approval only the audience can give. One of the really great threads buried deep within this movie is the juxtaposition of these two extremes. Natural talent and savant versus the ever envious showman. These two men obviously are out for blood and nothing is going to stand in their way.
Early on Borden discovers a key fact about what it means to truly become a great magician/artist. Borden understood that it took complete dedication to his craft 24/7/365 days of the year. There was no on-stage moment… his life was the stage. But what has this to do with the final reveal? Angier finally understands that to best Borden he is going to have to get his hands dirty. He is going to invest sizably and go to extraordinary lengths to better Borden. And in Angier’s defense, this he does really really well. Angier is solely responsible for this the most extraordinary of surprises in all of the movie. He has finally learned the lesson Borden has been trying to teach him for years. And it is this lesson, this surprise that 98% of the movie’s audience are blissfully unaware.
The Prestige’s Raison de etre
The very first prime mover we encounter within the movie is that magic is special in that it frees the audience from their painful and boring lives by allowing them to believe in something that is unreal. It frees them to believe in something greater, that something truly otherworldly exists in this world. Why would we not begin to think for a second that the movie The Prestige is doing anything differently? It is then allowing the audience to slip into the fantastical notion that magic is real and there is an escape from the ordinariness of this life. When in fact there really is a solution available to those who are diligent and observant.
Secondly throughout the movie we are shown time and time again the details of various magic tricks and how they physically work. Then at the end all of a sudden this pattern stops and the machine actually works? This answer is disjointed in the extreme. If this occurred in The Illusionist I wouldn’t have given it a second thought. But it didn’t… it occurred in The Prestige and it in so doing is a logical fallacy.
And finally, the movie proves its on thesis in that most don’t really want to know how a magic trick is done. We really do want to be fooled. So to it goes with the mechanics of how the movie actually works. Most do not want to be fooled. Ask yourself this question. Is The Prestige a drama or a science fiction movie? It doesn’t logically follow that it would be a science fiction movie. It makes no sense that a writer/director as smart as Christopher Nolan would make this mistake accidentally. Its way too brazen and obvious for such a nuanced and intelligent director.
Common Questions:
Q. But the HATS man! What about the hats and the cats? He sees them with his own two eyes! He discovers that the machine works all on his own!
A. Drivel. Are you saying that purchasing 200 identically sized and colored top hats is difficult? That finding five similarly colored cats is hard? Please. The genius here wasn’t in the hats and the cats in the field. It was in getting Angier to believe he solved the glitch in the Tesla Machine. It was the perfect con.
Angier only realizes the machine doesn’t work after the lab is destroyed and he’s already on his way back to England. That was Angier’s turning point. Do I really want to be the greatest magician of all time? Will I live the lie 24/7/365 in order to pull of this stunt and in so doing secure my position atop all the other magicians and showmen that went before me? And more importantly, will I beat my arch nemesis finally? Or will I allow myself to lose?
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Q. We see with our own two eyes that Angier is duplicated by the machine. That he had to take the gun and shoot his double upon realization of what he’d done.
A. Earlier in this review I detailed out the narration problem. This too is a similar problem. At the point in the story when this scene is shown it is Angier telling Fallon what he’d done, and that the machine had worked. Why would we trust Angier’s word any more than we would trust his diary? This is just one more lie, albeit one that we envision along with Fallon as he is telling it to us. Its nothing more than a lie.
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Q. But what about all the bodies in the chambers at the end?
A. That is the essence of a magic trick. There needs to be nearly incontrovertible proof that the trick is real or we wouldn’t believe. It really doesn’t matter how I answer this one, in my opinion. 20 different look-a-likes that Angier has killed. 20 wax figures he’s crafted to trick Fallon (Borden) into believing he’s really made the Tesla machine work. This magic trick was for an audience of one. Fallon. (And You.)
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Q. During the wrap up – the explanation – of the movie Nolan did not say anything about the machine not working. Its simply incomprehensible that Nolan wouldn’t have explained everything to us and tie a pretty bow at the ending of the movie.
A. True. American movie going audiences disdain loose ends. They are anathema to us. And for a director to challenge us in this way is almost unthinkable. And as unthinkable a premise as this is – it is exactly what Nolan had done in The Prestige. He has evenly balanced two equally plausible and irrefutable truths perfectly. Either A) This movie is science fiction. or B) It is a magic trick. Neither can be proven wrong. The evidence to both options are equally weighted. It is in this that we see Nolan’s true genius.
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Believing that the Tesla machine works would be similar to believing that a magician who saws his assistant in half has somehow created a medical device that will re-weld her back together again. Why would you ever believe this to be true? You wouldn’t. So why exactly would you believe that the machine truly works? You shouldn’t.
But I do admit that ultimately I would have had to concoct evidence to make sense of such an awful movie directed by such a brilliant mind. Luckily for me, I didn’t have to concoct a story when one is right there if you would just take a moment to consider it fully. The only question is – Are you watching closely enough? Do you really want to know the truth behind the story?
Yo – well argued, my friend! It’s like Dejavu – remembering all the details that made this movie so great…I want to watch it again!
NICE.
Thanks amigo…
You should be given a trophy for having to sit through this tripe in person and without warning! An EMMY even. Cough.
Tay
Yes, I know this is dragging up an old thread, but I just saw this movie again, and still love it. You have nailed it. I’ve tried to explain it was all a trick to others who saw, but they believe the “clone” machine worked like many do.
Thank you for taking the time to clearly explain what at least 2 of us think happened.
Thanks for the comment Tony.
Glad to know that 1 other person buys the theory. At least we can be insane together. Hehe.
Seriously though… I am sure it makes no since to most to spend so much time on such a silly thing. And yet I believe most people are missing it – even those that enjoy the movie. Thanks again.
Taylor
Taylor,
Yes it’s only a movie, but one that provokes such thought afterward is pretty neat!
I find it funny that many critics and reviewers didn’t “get it”, and write about the “syfy” twist!
Google is another fun tool, if you want to be entertained by the “98%”, take a look at the following:
http://www.moviesnobs.net/the-prestige-explained/#comment-43710
You can see where I come in (recently), and all those who believe in the machine!
Cheers!
Tony
I have seen this film over 15 times and I can assure you your theory is wrong.
I have to point out some of the many flaws in your assessment. First off you question why Borden would want to know what happens underneath the stage if he knew Angier was using the same cloning machine. The answer is that Borden never used the machine. He never spoke to Tesla, and instead sent him there just to get him on a wild goose chase. Borden always had his twin brother. He didn’t think a machine like that could be used. So its completely natural for him to want to know what happens under the state and how he can go that distance in such a short amount of time.
Which brings me to my next question. Everything in this film has a logical, albiet sci-fi, explanation to how each trick works. If you are correct and the machine doesn’t work, how then does Angier travel that distance? He tried the double technique earlier and got burnt badly for it, humiliated even. Would you honestly think he would use this method again.
And if it was wax figures as you suggest, how does he travel that distance still? And who was it in the tank that Borden drowned.
The real answer is that the showman won. Borden could have done the trick just as Angier did. He could have traveled more distance and had a light show, but being the great magician and lowsy showman, he didn’t do that. He kept it too simple. That is what is tragic to me. Borden could have done the trick better, but Angier found a way to out do him. And it was through Tesla making him that working machine that he was able to do this.
And finally, if you read the novel that this is adapted from, the machine works. It is as clear as day that the cloning machine works.
The only question that remains is which Angier remains when the machine works. I believe it sends a clone to the new location, while keeping the original. Angier states at the end of the film that it took so much courage stepping into the machine not knowing if you’d be the one that died or moved on.
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I have to say that no film has provided the landscape for such a large discussion. I love that many people find new things with this film and I myself find out something new every time I watch it. I look forward to any replies regarding my above post.
Cheers!
Thanks for the assurance. Heheh.
So you believe, Borden tossed out the first scientific name he could think of as the method/password to the book in order to send Angiers on a wild goose chase? Oh, and you also believe this goose chase ultimately resulted in a machine that could clone adult humans in a flash – ex nihilo?!? (You do realize even God chose to use dirt to form Adam right?)
Doesn’t this whoops!! Tesla actually could clone junk seem amazingly silly? Like 3 lottery ticket wins in a row with the same number kind of low odds? I just think it’s laughable really.
As for angiers using a twin again, it’s perfectly reasonable as long as he lives the magic like Borden and the Chinese magician do. Blind stange hands. 100 shows. Cutter is excluded. Etc etc. Of course it’s a twin. There is no other reasonable explanation.
As far as the book goes – I’m well aware. I’ve read it. And it is more of a philosophical argument about the ethical treatments of clones. But Nolan wrote the screenplay here and all bets are now off. The book is enteresting but nothing Nolan touches stays the same. Ie Batman anyone? Memento Mori?
If the only debatable thing is – which is the clone which is the real… Then I want nothing to do with this tripe ridden movie. To explain every trick painfully and then throw sic-fi in is silly. I don’t by a word of it. Granted, you are welcome to your opinion but unfortunately sir, your 15 viewings have let you down.
Until next time.
Taylor
Okay, so please still explain to me these things:
1. Why would Angier be so shocked when Borden appears in the end to shoot him? He seems genuinely shocked that he did in fact have a brother the entire time. Furthermore he asks a lot of questions about it, rather than simply understanding it because it is what he too went through with.
Angier then explains to Borden how he knows nothing about his own sacrifice and we are shown (not told through Angier) about the first time Angier uses his machine and shoots himself. How does this play out if he has a twin. He is not telling this to Borden, we are seeing it as the audience.
What I feel your argument boils down to is that he just has a twin the entire time and that is that. In doing so you have to ignore every bit of evidence we have been shown to the contrary. The fact that he doesn’t have the dedication to perform such a trick, that he is more of a showman and cannot understand magic like Borden. Angier is completely baffled at Chung Lee Soo’s secret once Borden tells him.
The film is not only about figuring out who is the original and which twin is which. It is about the sacrifices in order to win and the cost that comes along with it. It is a dramatic piece that has sci-fi elements. It took a period piece and mixed in sci-fi. Something that is rarely done, and Nolan has said himself in the special features even that he wanted to try something new like that.
When I first heard about this theory I got excited, I really wanted another chapter of this story to be openend up. But choosing to believe this is grasping at something that isn’t in the film. The details do not add up.
1. Angier knew nothing. The decrypted diary told him nothing. The trip to Tesla told him nothing as the machine didn’t work. Years earlier Cutter and Angier are arguing over how Borden pulled it off and Angier would not take a double as the real answer. There was something deeper going on some sort of “real magic” that he wanted to believe. But he also hadn’t foreseen the twin angle either as Borden changed his entire lifestyle to cover this fact up. He lived the magic when Angier couldn’t wrap his mind around this concept. So of course he asked a ton of questions at the end. It is your theory that should have a ton of problems with this scene.
2. Angier tells Borden this is what happened and the movie shows us what Angier is telling us. This witness is about as untrustworthy as they come. You are misunderstanding what is happening here. And its a subtle detail – but crucial. Angier, describes to Borden (really Fallon) the hard work and sacrifice he went through and the movie shows us what he’s saying. This scene is the apex of the magic trick from Angier to the audience of Borden/Fallon.
3. Angier didn’t at one time have the dedication to live the magic. Oh but he got motivated. After getting worked by Tesla & Borden he had all kinds of motivation. He definitely got off his butt at that point. That is when he creates his own diary. (A bit unoriginal, but unanticipated all the same.) He hires the blind stage hands. Begins living the trick as opposed to just performing it on stage. I’m not arguing I know what the solution is for Angier’s trick. Wax figures, a single double, a 100… it really doesn’t matter. Clever magic has clever solutions. But scientifically feasible all the same. I have a solution that I think makes sense… but its moot really.
I think its pretty funny that you believe that trusting in cloning is a solution you can believe in. That makes zero sense and it is about as incongruous as it gets. (Which is actually more offensive than the sci-fi bit actually.) The movie is a magic trick and it makes sense that you don’t want to believe. You want to be carried away by the fantasy – the movie says that is what most want. The belief in unbelief…
I couldn’t agree more with your statement re: the point of the movie – “the sacrifices in order to win”. I liken this movie to Primer – which isn’t a sci-fi movie either, it just happens to have a time-travel bit in it. hehe. Its actually about two friends and eventually their never ending struggle with one another to win. But if there is only a sci-fi explanation – I don’t want any part of it. And it just slid along side Ishtar as the worst movie ever made if that is the only option. Thankfully… it isn’t.
I will say I do respect anyone that really thinks this movie through – and that you have. Congratulations – and keep up the good thinking.
Can’t we all just get along?
I think the real object of the movie is that either position you take is somewhat inarguable. It is equally unlikely that the movie is science-fiction as it is to say that the whole thing was a magic trick. While it makes logical and dramatic sense that the movie was simply a well presented magic trick, there is equal and seemingly sound evidence to suggest that the Tesla machine really works.
No matter what side you take, you’re kind of screwed trying to defend yourself. If Angier truly used a double, how could he have shot himself from across the room? Killed his double twice? And I have a hard time believing that this scene was just planted in the movie for show. Could it be a lie? Possible, not probable.
On the other hand, if the Tesla machine really does work, it ruins the very basis on which the movie is built. The Prestige begins and ends with the ‘three-part’ speech by Cutter. The speech is repeated at the end for effectiveness, and the very last words are, ‘you want to be fooled.’ The very first scene that is shown are 100 identical top hats. All of this suggests that the machine is a sham and the audience has been fooled into thinking the trick is real.
Of course, you could got back and forth forever trying to find the perfect cookie-cutter solution that makes everything work out perfectly, but I think the point is that there is none. This is a movie of duality, you can choose to believe, or search for the ‘trick’. Neither side can be disproven.
So I hate to jump into a heated discusion with a measley 2( and a half) viewings of The Prestige, but I think the machine definately did NOT work. First of all I agree with above that its easy to debate both sides of this movie, but I dont think science plays a part in the explination.
If this movie was put in a different period, I could maybe believe the advancement of science to the extent of the sci-fi theory. A collapsable bird cage with a metal bodysuit seems possible, but not cloning. Instead I feel like Borden (maybe through the encouragement of johannson) realized he needed some “flare” in his version of the trick, hence starting Angiers infatuation after seeing him at the first tesla experiment.
Once Angier realizes the machine doesnt work and that Borden fooled him with his (Bordens) fake diary, he begins his OWN fake diary. Angiers fabricated diary have the ONLY instances in which the machine works. The only exception is in Angiers dying speech, and I doubt he would tell his arch rival the truth about his version of the trick just cuz hes dying…
Ok, so Angiers faked the cloning story, and Borden/Fallon is….well….Borden/Fallon, haha! I think the different personalities of B/F are an interesting plot driver in this flick, I just want to present some of my ideas on them and see what yall think about the double double lifers. One twin was loud, a drinker, and more of a showman. This is the twin that tries the new knot on Angiers wife, seduces the fiery Johanssons, humilates Angiers at his show, and attends the final Angier performance. I’ll from now on call him Borden. The second twin (Fallon) was quiet, calculated, and thoughtful. This is the one that marries Sarah(i think thats her name), gets shot in the hand, and can never recall the knot he tied(cuz Borden did that and he has to cover for him). So although they shared alot of values and goals, they were very different. Thats what lead to the “Whats under that stage, why cant you out think him” arguement from Borden, and the “Just leave it alone, don’t go back” from Fallon (dressed as Borden keep in mind)
As for how Angier pulls of his version of the trick, this is the part I’m open to some other ideas. Someone presented the idea of wax figurines for the drowned Angiers but I’m leaning towards another theory out there although simmilar. That theory is that there never was an Angier, just a Lord Cadlow (Lord C) and Root. Of course Angier is Lord C because he tells his wife he changed his name early in the movie to do magic. Once I decided to go with the non working Tesla machine idea, this made some amount of sense. Although Root was troublesome, he was great at presentation and mimicking Aingers. After Lord C found out the machine wouldnt work, he brought him back in and used him in his great trick on Borden. He realized how to live the life of his trick like the chinese dude and used Root to accomplish it. Right now, I’m thinking Lord C obviously wanted to be the Prestige performer, so he was always the one in the balcony at the end. Maybe Lord C knew he could kill two birds with one stone by placing the tank directly below the trap door at one show, thus killing Root and framing Borden. After the first cage trick when Borden showed up and sabatoged it, I feel like Lord C was prepared for him to do the same again. Could the blind workers have been just training for whichever night Lord C decided to pull off this feat?
The last part could be a strech, but I feel like this is more in line with the kind of misdirection and intrigue that the premise of this movie is built on. In my opinion, Angiers/Cadlow won because he did succeed in making everyone (at some point) think that the ordinary can do something extraordinary. The tesla bells and whistle machine captivated Borden (the fiery one) so much he lost sight of how their version of the trick worked, leaving him, and the viewer as the ones wanting to be fooled. Cutter understands what happend with the Borden twin, so he let Fallon(dressed as Borden himself no less) in to kill Lord C. So I feel like its either Root, or a wax double(maybe) in the single tank at the end…..Thoughts?
First let me say that normally, I am dramatically in the minority with this theory. But because I wrote this and the visitors coming here are seeking this perspective out, I think this is more widely agreed to than normal.
Regardless, I want to say that I really do respect anyone’s theory that is well thought out and considered. Take for example Conor. It is rare that I see someone so thoroughly think through the movie like you have. So kudos to you. Ultimately Nolan intentionally defined two potential solutions to the movie and he has pitted the two against each other. Thus our sometimes heated debate over the details between the two. And although I may get animated at times – I still believe that as long as you think it through I’m more than impressed with whatever it is your theory might support.
@Cicero – nice comments. Specifically your discussion of the differences between Borden and Fallon. Yes, you are correct, they are easily identifiable throughout the movie. So much so we know who died, who lived and we also know alot of the reasons why each did what they did throughout the movie.
I would like to disagree with one point that you made though. I don’t think Angiers won. But I think you are speaking to the audience of the movie as the real audience of the trick… in which case you may be right. I believe the individual that won was Fallon. Fallon chose not to look at the tanks. He chose not to take the bait. Fallon was the one to say, leave it alone. Walk away – this has gone too far. And it was Borden that lost his life as a result.
But yes, on a different scale – who took it all the way and completely saw it through even in the face of impending death – yes, that would be Angiers (or Lord Caldlow as you posited.) But over all, I agree with your vantage on the movie 100%. I even liked your take on Lord C’s decision to get rid of Root with the final trick. I don’t know for sure if it would be Root though – but I like your take regardless. Nicely done.
@ToEveryoneElse – I want this to be a safe place to put forth non-conforming theories. I know what its like to have an idea and have it squashed. Boy do I. So posit away. Just know that I personally think the machine doesn’t work – and that is the perspective I view the movie from.
@Taylor – Thanks for the Consign! After some thought on the who wins thing I see ur side. For the surviving twin, it probably comes down to if he valued his brothers life/career or his daughter the most. Overall its kinda like the spoils of war on both lead characters sides, ya know? For everyone that thinks the machine is real, I’m interested to hear some opposing sides. I think i really lucked out on how I was introduced to this movie. I saw just the ending twice before seeing the whole thing here recently.. I just think the beauty of this movie is what makes most people think the ending sucked. Kinda like when Cutter said Bordens trick was so simple that nobody applauded it at first. So I’m just trying to help folks see it for the great flick that it is. Im starting to like it over inception….
Sorry, but you’re way overthinking this movie. You seem too forget one simple but huge thing….. IT’S A MOVIE. Director’s can do whatever they want in a film, and it doesn’t have to make sense, nor does it have to “fit”.
As far as an explanation of the cloning machine, let’s not forget a major sub-plot in the film; Nikola Tesla, one of the greatest inventors of all-time, had gone into exile because the world didn’t want to accept anymore of his inventions. If you recall he says something alone the lines of “the world will accept an invention that could change the world only once from the same person.” Tesla may have very well invented this machine in the late 1800′s, and no one knew of it, which is explored in the film.
The machine MOST DEFINITELY is shown to have worked in the film, the flashback scene where he uses the machine for the first time proves this, and too say that Angier was lying about this would be pointless, because as someone else here said, that flashback isn’t an illustration of what Angier is saying, it’s coming directly from Angier’s memories in a flashback.
Mr. MC,
It’s all good. We can agree to disagree. But the whole Tesla argument makes me laugh every time I hear it. Yes, I’m well aware of the history surrounding the man. And his infamous earthquake machine, that almost oscillated an entire city to the ground. Got it.
But there is a HUGE difference between inventing DC and cloning exact replicas of adult humans. Lil bit different. The guy was good. He wasn’t that good. I just don’t buy it.
As for whether Angier was lying to Borden or not – matter of opinion. The journals lied from beginning to end. Borden lived a life of lies. Angier knew that to keep up with his rival he would have to get his hands dirty too. So yeah… I choose to believe one side of the coin. You can have the other. I even cede it to you… congratz!
Seriously though – its all good. By my counts you are in good company. Over 90% of film goers agree with you. So that must mean you are right. Stands to reason.
It’s a known fact, by the way, that the book and movie differ immensely. Just because the machine worked in the book doesn’t mean it worked in the movie (source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0482571/faq#.2.1.32). The characters, modes of narration, and relationships are completely different. Asserting that Nolan’s decision to change a plot point is far from unthinkable.
And although I was opposed to the idea that the machine didn’t work originally, I have recently picked up the movie again and must concede.
A major thing Conor (among others) seem to be forgetting:
If the machine worked, why didn’t Tesla (who was so low on funds) clone himself up some jewels? Or just cash? No, it makes more sense that he duped Angier out of his money in a state of desperation and Angier, instead of retaliating, took a page from Tesla’s playbook and conned Borden.
The machine working creates more problems than solutions.
Haha sorry Taylor; I know I promised you a debate but I think I’ve got to just tip my hat to you now. I hadn’t seen the movie in a while, but your reasoning is sound and your argument valid. I’m watching it for the second consecutive time as we speak.
There are a FEW stretches, though: like when Borden chains the prison guard’s leg to the table. We all know magicians escape locks, but they’re always trick locks (or they have the keys hidden somewhere on their person beforehand, as Houdini did). This was an actual prison lock. And if he could unlock it, why didn’t he escape instead of letting Angier take his daughter?
Saying there is ALWAYS a logical explanation for how every trick is done is not true.
In addition, while your assertion that Angier’s journal (as well as Bordon’s) shows events that either took place differently or never took place at all, it could then be argued that a majority of the movie never took place as most of the narration is straight from the journals. For example, logically, why would Tesla NOT burn the machine but leave it for Angier, then tell HIM to destroy it? Angier was clearly misdirection Bordon. That could not have happened.
My only problem with the movie, now, is the amount of misdirection. Because the journals are so subjective, it is near impossible to tell what objectively took place and what each rival wanted the other to believe.
Actually, another problem is the debate over whether or not Angier uses a double again, for his final round of shows. That, and the fact that there are no clues for the fact that the machine doesn’t work (we figured it out based on our knowledge of Nolan as a director and his commitment to themes and exquisite direction, and not cheating audiences). I just wish there was something solid to hold on to, to point at when someone argues that the machine works. The only thing that we could point to is the repetition of “Are you watching closely?” and the beginning with all of the black cats. The movie tries VERY hard to make you believe Angier has gone too far and paid the ultimate price.
That having been said, I’m open to the idea that I’m missing something.
Also, if the machine didn’t work, WHY did Angier rip up Borden’s secret outside the prison?? He’s SAYS because his trick is better, but he’s had a better trick (using a double) before, and that never seemed enough. And he’s surprised when he gets shot by Bordon (Fallon). He didn’t prepare that room for Bordon if he didn’t expect him to come.
(And for the record, the scene where Angier shoots his twin IS being recounted to Bordon. Not a flashback)
But, as for the proof the machine worked, we have Angeir’s dying declaration as well as the “acts” of the movie: The PLEDGE (the ordinary somethings, the magicians Bordon and Angier), the TURN (Bordon doing a seemingly impossible trick, Angier using the Tesla machine), and the PRESTIGE (Angier coming back in the form of Lord Caudlow, Borden coming back to reclaim his daughter). This fulfills the movie’s thematic promise that every trick has three acts (assuming the machine worked). In that sense, the scifi element does NOT cheat us out of anything. In fact, it makes good on its promise that you must bring the taken thing back.
After reading this thread (or 7/10th of it) I agree with Taylor that the machine was a fake. Another solid piece of evidence that not everything in this film actually happened is that we see TWO contradictory drowning scenes of Angiers. One of them is a lie so id venture to guess the same of other parts (i.e. the shooting of the clone)
Though this opens up a few questions…
1. If the machine doesn’t work, then Angier is using a double. Why does Borden/Fallon fall for the double trick, when initially, he was able to spot the double ACROSS the theater? Why is Angier no longer concerned about being blackmailed?
2. WHO does Borden watch dying in the tank? If it’s an Angier double, wouldn’t Borden notice it immediately? Again, he spotted the double from across the theatre but he’s now face to face with him! ???
3. Who is Angier trying to fool with the multiple tanks at the end of the film? Angier doesn’t KNOW Borden has a twin so he could not have anticipated Borden coming to the warehouse! He believes Borden is in jail or has been executed for his murder. So who is he attempting to fool?
4. If Cutter wasn’t fooled, why does he seek to destroy the machine?
Also…I still don’t understand the 2 drowning scenes of Angier/Angier’s double. In the retelling of the scene, Borden/Fallon tries to save Angier but Cutter prevents it. My guess is that the 2nd scene is the real version of events.
1. But WHY would Cutter prevent Borden from saving his friend?
2. If the tank was cracked from the hammering, wouldn’t investigators see the crack in the tank?
P.S. This discourse reminds me of the blogs following the baffling series finales of the Sopranos…was Tony killed?(I believe he was…but lets not go there!)
ALSO (this is not mine, taken from another board):
“-Root had a different nose, ears, teeth and voice, plastic surgery wasn’t particularly common at this time, how could Angier make Root any more like him than he was last time they did the trick?
-Why did Cutter, the man who discovered and worked with Root to turn him into an Angier-alike not recognise his own handiwork when identifying the body?
-When they first did the trick, Borden knew instantly that it was a double because Root wasn’t identical. He noticed the differences. How did he lose this ability to judge the differences?
-When they first did the trick, Angier got fed up with always being under the stage, not being able to accept the prestige, when did he become so selfless?
-The trick involves Angier talking before and after the machine is used, root sounded nothing like him , how did they work that?
-Root was kidnapped, tied up, and used as bait, Angier had his leg broken leaving him permanently walking with a limp, why would either of them repeat the trick?
-What was the water tank doing under the stage on what turned out to be the final performance (which may or may not have been the last planned performance, and there was no opportunity to move the tank under the stage when they realise Borden is going to act on that night)”
and why did borden use TESLA as the key to his journal, whether or not the machine worked? he wasnt using it (as we were initially led to believe), and he had no defendable reason to know about it.
lets say the machine works.
bordon is still allowed to be surprised at angier’s New Transported Man if bordon DOESNT KNOW the machine works (in which case, as stated above, he has no reason to know about Tesla at all)
lets say it doesnt.
tesla OBVIOUSLY wasnt advertising the fact that he had this ability or had begun building the machine. it is still as much of a stretch that borden used it as his diary key. it’s just more of a stretch if the machine works.
the only theory is that bordon did his research (which is rather impressive as there was no tv, radio, internet, etc.) and found out about tesla’s work (none of which directly related to the machine as tesla clearly wanted to keep his work secret) and used it to fool angier into thinking thats what he was using. whether or not angier stumbles upon tesla’s working machine (stretch, as there’s no way bordon could have found out about it in his research) OR he stumbles upon tesla’s con (slightly less of a stretch if we assume tesla planned to pretend to build whatever angier wanted as long as he could keep it up to suck up his money). either way, this rests upon the idea that a man neither bordon nor angier has ever met was willing to patronize angier’s needs.
im beginning to think the movie doesn’t work whether the machine does or not…
as for debbie:
1. cutter may not have relaized borodn was trying to save him. he just saw angier drowing, bordon by the tank, and flipped out. cutter, while he tries hard, is not know for making the most rational decisions: he WAS prepared during julia’s trick in the event anything went awry, but how smart is it to take upon himself the task of cracking open the tank when he’s in his sixties? i feel like if he handed the axe off to wolverine or batman, julia might have made it.
2. the crack in the tank could have been explained as many things: angier’s escape efforts, cutter’s efforts to break him out, etc. the crack in the tank isnt evidence of bordon’s innocence as there is no way to prove it was made by him, and made by him in an attempt to free angier.
and YES: the fact that bordon identified the body in the tank as angier’s really solidifies it for me. he wouldnt have made that mistake, even in a moment of panic. cutter also identified the body on the slab as angier.
angier. died.
i mean, putting all of your beliefs aside and conceding for the moment (purely for argument’s sake) that the machine worked, what would this movie have to do to prove it to you?? haha. we were given two separate eye-witness accounts that angier was dead, both bordon and cutter, both of whom have been show previously to know the difference between angier and a double quite well. what more could nolan have done to show that he really died?
If Borden can recognize Angier up close and there is no cloning machine, we have a problem, Houston, even if it WAS Angier who died in that tank. If Angier WAS the one in the tank, then Angier is dead. But if Angier is dead, who is Lord Cadlow? And if Borden can distinguish between Angier and a double, then why would he believe the Lord Casdlow who visits him in prison is Angier??? In brief, if Borden can recognize Angier, then BOTH the man in the tank and the man who visits him in prison have to be one and the same – Angier!
A few possibilities i thought up (though all are problematic):
1. Angier has a twin as well (but then he would have used him in his act and deduced Borden’s trick)
2. Angier held his breath under water and survived (he practiced after his wife’s death. But seems improbable, when he has no way of knowing how long he would need to keep this up)
3. Borden/Fallon were fooled the 2nd time around because of the addition of the machine. It gave them a reason to believe in magic. Remember when the club owner said “excuse me but its been awhile since i saw real magic.” (But then why did he go under stage searching for the truth? And why did he state that Angier crossed the world for nothing?)
4. Perhaps one of the Borden/Fallon’s had better eye sight than the other Borden/Fallon (but they both saw the shows and were baffled).
Taylor, you’re the guy who concluded Angier’s had a doubles or wax clones…so then how do you reason that Borden was fooled from up-close? And how was Cutter, Angier’s life long angelier (sp?) fooled from up close? And why is Angier’s new trick any more amazing then the trick he performed prior to Tesla..if he’s using doubles the same as before? (The addition of the machine, perhaps? The “dressing it up” into something extraordinary? But then why would Angier/Cadlow tear up Borden’s secret and claim he has the greatest trick in the world? And why would Cutter
On another note, which Borden/Fallon was the one who was executed?
The one in jail was crying for his daughter? Yet the one out of jail came to claim the daughter. Even more baffling, if the twin could take care of the daughter, why was he worried that Angier would take the daughter?
I Know! It was all a dream!
Holy cow batman!
Generally I like to dialogue with each individual user point by point. But I obviously created a monster here and I am MEGA-WAY-BEHIND. For some reaon my blog didn’t tell me anyone was commenting out here. So I’m sorry for coming in late. And so I won’t be able to discuss each and every point you both so eloquently make in detail. But I’ll do my best to catch up.
@Dana – at one point of your discussion (in which you are rather conflicted I might say… going from a firm believer to a serious doubter) you say that the sci-fi explanation of the movie is honest and upright with the viewer and if the machine doesn’t work then we’ve been dubiously tricked and deceived. Sounds like the definition of a magic trick to me. My whole belief is that this movie is quite literally a magic trick from beginning to end. Every visitor to the movie theater and every renter of this movie has been messed with as a visitor to a magic show is everytime. But this concept of being “lied to” is so stinking foreign to movie goers that it just doesn’t compute. Wah? You mean our narrator perspective wasn’t in god-mode? How is that possible? Its because Nolan bedazzled us. Just as Angier bedazzled Borden – and ultimately it cost Borden his life.
I’ll admit I can’t answer all these details you both bring up. I can answer many of them. But not all of them. But ultimately it DOESN’T MATTER. Let’s say all the readers of this blog decided we would meet up and collectively go on a field trip to a magic show. Right? We watch the show as the magician bedazzles us with trick after trick. Wow. Ooooh. Amazing!
At the end of the show we head to Starbucks and we talk about the show. Everyone is just giddy with what they just saw. Someone says – “How do you think he levitated that safe? Maybe he used a anti-vortex generator!” And someone else says – “Ooh right
probably! And what about how he got out of those handcuffs? Maybe he cut his hands off and then reattached them with a self cauterizing vibro-saw?!” And I go – “He didn’t actually make the safe levitate.” And the group goes – “NOOOOOO!” Then I say – “Well, yeah… its just a trick.” And the group goes… “PROVE IT! How’d he do it?”
And I say – I don’t know how he did it. All I know is that the alternative is impossible. Cloning of adult humans isn’t possible. Never will be. Can’t be done today, couldn’t be done a hundred years ago, won’t be done in another 100 years. Yeah, I’m intrigued with the trick. And I’d like to know how it was done… but ultimately it doesn’t matter how I THINK he did it. All I know is that he did it somehow very clever – and that I’m impressed. Just because I can’t prove it doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
But I will say this – it does not logically follow that cloning is the sincere answer. It is the one we are lead to believe is the answer. But a magician doesn’t lead us to believe a double is how he is doing his teleportation gig. That just isn’t how it works.
@Debbie – to your details about Borden’s sudden inability to tell the difference between Angier & Root I just say he finally got his crap together. Was it a new double? Was it Root doctored up? Was it a twin that he’d had all along (Lord Caldlow’s long lost twin – the sequel)? Did he have a talent search with auditions? Who knows? What I find really interesting is that Borden all of a sudden loses his objectivity. Sure, sure the machine sparks, but what is going on under that stage! he says. Something causes him to become an average joe viewer. THAT is the trick. Whatever he did to bait and switch Borden is Angier’s win. And I’m sure the culmination of TONS of work to best his mortal enemy.
The tanks have never bothered me a lick. The solution to Angier’s trick has never kept me awake at night. I applaud him for finally getting it together. But Dana, I can’t give you the concrete evidence you so obviously need. Just can’t do it. Even if I were to come up with an iron-clad theory – it’d still be that. Theory. But I will tell you this. That machine didn’t work. And it is the most clever long con I’ve ever seen – and its only because the director chose not to tell the audience they’ve been collectively conned. Its brilliance is also a failing because they seem to believe that the smartest director in years now has this bogus, impossible to understand movie in his repertoire.
IT WAS TOO SMART FOR ITS OWN GOOD.
Which makes me love it all the more.
Now as for whether or not Angier died or not… AN Angier died. But I don’t believe it was Angier. Angier became fascinated with how he could get out in front of the crowd at the end of the movie. He was fascinated with getting the praise and the glory he deserved and I believe this was crucial for his final trick. The trick needed to teleport obviously, but it also had to allow Angier to close out the Prestige. And so I think his final trick solved these problems in the same old way. But differently.
Angier’s double was so convincing, that he was able to pass this guy off as himself for the ever important Pledge and the Turn. And how was he able to do that? I’ll tell you how. He inceived (to steal from a totally different movie conversation) the idea in Borden’s mind that MAYBE, MAYBE, Tesla really did help him clone himself. MAYBE!? And so Borden just wasn’t able to see it even though it was right in front of his face.
So yeah – I didn’t really answer any of your guy’s question here. But if you just STOP with the crazy details and the crazy inconsistencies we see or don’t see… you’ll realize that it just has to be what happened. Again, I respect everyone for their differing opinions. But this movie either blows rocks hard. Or it is the best movie ever… I mean like, of all time. Its one or the other. And I choose to believe its the best movie of all time. Just saying.
For the love of all that’s good and holy keep the Inception junk thattaway —> This thing is confusing enough without bringing dreams into it! Hahaha.
>But if you just STOP with the crazy details and the crazy inconsistencies
Taylor, thanks, but the devil is in the details, don’t you think? Especially where a magic trick is concerned! Otherwise, you would not have watched this film 15 times, in order to lap up every detail. Mind you, after 15 viewings, you SHOULD be able to answer all our questions (damnit!) I personally loved Momento and think Nolan is brilliant. I also think our questions have answers! If this wasnt sci fi, then there has to be a way of addressing these questions. If there isn’t, then Nolan didn’t pull this off. By repeating “watch closely” he’s inviting us to decipher this movie, including all those details. So I think it DOES matter who died in that tank – I can buy into the fact that Angier got a really good double. But with 100 performances, did he drown a new double every single night just in case Borden showed up??? If not, how did he know when to entrap the double (by either changing the lock or giving him the wrong key)? Also, I’m still mystified by Cutter. Did he too believe the machine was the real thing? He seems to much too savvy for that – its contrary to his character – so why the claim that it was built by a wizard and why would he wish to buy it and have it destroyed?
As for Dana’s response to my questions, I watched the scene again. Cutter was down the stairs and could certainly at least hear Borden swinging the axe. Furthermore, you can tell if glass is cracked from the insider or the outside (maybe forensics was less advanced in the 1800s but still…one would think they could distinguish between a glass tank cracked by an axe from the outside or someone’s bare hands from the inside!). Cutter should have realized Borden was trying to save Angier…Angier did the same thing to try and save his wife. So why grab the axe away from him? And why would Cutter tell a different version of events at the initiation of the trial?
Debbie –
There is a difference between nerdgasming over the details and understanding the overall zeitgeist of a movie. Macro vs. Micro. Without understanding the macro intentions of the movie the micro details are irrelevent. That was really my only point. Dude, I mean really, look at my blogs? I’m all about details. But sometimes we get buried in them and aren’t guided by the larger point and the bigger story arc. Fair enough? Good. (By the by, did I say somewhere I’d seen the movie 15 times? Oh I see it now – that was Conor. I have no idea how many times I’ve seen it. That would be impossible to say. I’ve let this movie run in the background for days.)
As for the double – and the number of dead guys. I’ve always assumed only one person died. One Angier double rather. I’ve just assumed that seeing him come up on stage would be easy to detect. Angier tells his double (whether twin, actor, etc) that they are going to be conning someone and he’s to act like he’s drowning. He gets dunked – Borden isn’t there – gets out and they do it again the next night. On the fateful night – things switch up and somehow the real Angiers makes it impossible to open the tank like normal. Not 100% sure how EXACTLY – but it makes sense. I’d guess it was a swap between a rigged lock and a real lock.
This tid-bit really fascinated me for the longest time. At first I forgot (back before it was out on DVD) that Angier threw away the solution and I was certain that this proved Angier was still dying to know. But then I saw it again and realized with him throwing away the Prestige to the trick it didn’t prove anything and that Angier really didn’t want to know. But I’ve come full circle on this one. Angier really did want to know – but it was the ultimate showmanship to discard the solution – and walk away. Angier proved the better magician to discard his personal curiosity and to walk away from the solution.
This line of thinking was interesting to me – but hadn’t they both attended a Tesla exhibit together earlier in the movie? I assumed that this was where Borden met Tesla and where he began hatching the ultimate (sub-ultimate – not quite Angier ultimate) con on Angier by sending him on a wild goose chase. Right? Otherwise I think I agree with your logic here.
I think there is way too much being read into this. But who am I to speak? Personally I saw Cutter pulling Borden away because he was beating the glass with an axe. I thought he might be thinking he may even hack him to pieces? Or it could have just been – dude, quite the act, you’ve already killed him by drowning him. You don’t need to continue the show.
Angier KNOWS there has to be some solution to the trick other than real teleportation. He doesn’t know its a twin. But he does know that something else is going on – the other shoe has to drop. He isn’t surprised someone comes. He’s surprised that its a TWIN. Very different. That whole scene was the real Prestige of the movie. The real crowd-stopper. The tanks. The work. All for that moment. Ahhh – a TWIN! Look, look behind me! And Fallon wouldn’t do it. (Which leads to the next question)
Borden was executed. Fallon lived. This is easy to see. In every scene throughout the movie you can tell which one is which. Christian Bale should have won an Oscar for this brilliant acting job. Just amazingly well done. Now, as to why he wanted Angier to take his daughter that’s a great question. Hadn’t really considered it before. Maybe he knew she’d be better of if Lord Caldlow could watch after her? But that rings hollow. Better yet – he knew that Fallon would exact revenge and take his daughter back. Because Fallon was the father – it just made sense he’d get her at all costs. There’s also been discussion of whether Cutter was tricked. I’ve always assumed he was tricked throughout the movie until the final scene when Fallon collects the daughter. It seems like he finally understands – like it was explained to him finally. No?
I’ll have you guys know – that there are over 10,000 words here so far in this blog including all the comments. Tons of thoughts and ideas spewing back and forth. And of the 10k words (now I’m sure its closer to 12k) this is the funniest thing I’ve seen. Kudos to you Dana. hahaha.
haha thanks taylor, this discussion is so great considering how difficult it is to find friends of mine that dont just sigh, give up, and walk away when confronted with debates (especially movie debates)
as for your assertion that the alternative (cloning people) is so impossible there has to be another solution, like a real-life magic trick, it would make sense if we were discussing a news report. but its a movie. that CAN be a solution (albeit a cop-out) in a movie. as much as i dont want to admit it, and i AM verrrryyy conflicted, i think that the machine worked, even though that still leaves a lot of problems with the movie. its like, the deeper you look, the more confusing everything is. (i dont know if you’ve ever seen Ferris Bueller’s Day Off, but’s there’s a scene where one of the characters looks at a painting in a museum, and becomes fascinated with it. but, the closer he looks, the less he sees, as the picture is beautiful from afar, but when its parts are looked at too closely, he isnt looking at the whole image but weird colored individual parts).
there are plot/logistical problems with either theory of the movie. inception, at least, doesn’t do that :/ haha i cant tell if i liked the movie more before or after dissecting it. usually, if a movie holds up to my ridiculous scrutiny, i defend it against all comers and it earns a spot in my DVD collection. if not, no matter how it truck me at first, i move on. this confuses me to the point where it seems it’s in limbo (HA!) as i’ve rented the DVD from blockbuster and dont know if i plan on returning it. i might. it’s slowly disappointing me.
oh and debbie, i know WE know the crack was caused by cutter, but as far as proof to be presented in court goes, it really doesnt help bordon. and cutter certainly wouldnt defend him.
and taylor, even if the ending of the movie sucked completely, it doesnt mean the MOVIE sucked. there are so many technical, literary, and cinematic achievements in this film that one fraction of the plot (granted, probably the most important) being questionable doesnt diminish the picture as a whole. i liked this movie, whether nolan took the easy way out or not. but it is DVD collection worthy? the jury’s still out.
Dana,
The machine did NOT work. There is no doubt in my mind.
The last thing Angier says is “the world is miserable, its solid, solid all the way through…if you could fool them only for a second..then you could make them wonder. Then you got to see something very special” There you have it. Angier, himself, saying that the world is solid, that the audience was fooled. If it was supernatural, then the audience would not have been fooled, they’d have seen magic….he’s clearly admitting that it was a trick.
Then there is the appeal (to the audience) to “look closely”, that magic is making “something ordinary into something extraordinary” both at the beginning and end of the film, which drives home the point. The closing words, to us, the audience: – “now you’re looking for the secret, but you won’t find it because, of course, you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to work it out. You WANT to be fooled” And fooled we were!
I agree with Taylor, that thematically, incorporating sci fi into the film just wouldn’t make sense. This film is about illusion.
And one last point – Tesla wasn’t a wizard and he never claimed he was…he was an inventor…and an incompetent one at that!
Dana,
We can definitely agree to disagree on the point that if we ultimately file this movie in the sci-fi section it still is good. The reason is because it fails to follow it’s own internal rules. It then fails to keep it’s promises and ultimately cheats us completely. Thankfully, the movie is so stunningly brialliant 99% of the movie goers missed it. Which makes it EVEN more brilliant in my book.
Debbie,
Deliciously well argued. I have made each of these individual points myself but never so artfully done and never so deftly intertwined. So kudos to you. Yes, Angiers is pulling a page out if Hobbes’ playbook by basically agreeing that life is solitary, nasty, brutish and short. And we want nothing more than even a temporary release from the brutish nature of life. Thus the magic trick. Well said Debbie – my hat(s & cats) is off to you.
All excellent thoughts. Really interesting to read.
Do just want to mention though that Angier never reads or even looks at Bordens version of the trick. He works so hard to get it out of him in the prison simply to tear it up in front of him as another way of punishing him. He even states to Borden that he doesn’t need it, stating “I’ve beaten you”
Just letting you know that. Interesting argument, although its possible to read too much into films like these. As most of the film is told through journals, I don’t think Christopher Nolan would have all of it as a falsehood without there being a strong hint otherwise to make both sides of the argument balanced.
Good point, Alex.
Debbie: I want to agree with you! And Taylor. You both make sense and I would so like to believe the movie was THAT clever, but I’ve watched it a few times and I don’t think there is enough to explain the tanks at the end. I feel like if it was all a “trick”, and “watching closely” would allow one to figure out the trick (as Sara said, “Once you know, it’s actually quite obvious”), then upon a second or third (or at least a fourth) viewing, one could pick up on clues Nolan left behind to lead us in the right direction (The Uninvited and the Sixth Sense, two of my favorite movies, did this; they played fair with the audience. If you watched close enough, you could come upon the truth. The only difference is that the directors/writers in those movies chose to unravel everything at the end.) I feel like in order for this to work properly, the arugment must APPEAR balanced (Alex) at first, but slowly the truth would come to light and be irrefutable. There is too much conflict here for commit myself to the idea that it was all a trick (as epic of an ending as that would be).
In short, Nolan makes it TOO difficult to see, put’s TOO many things in the way, and obscures any hope for clarity the viewer may have. That’s not cinematic slight of hand, but downright red herrings that don’t necessarily all add up.
Taylor: Haha I asked you a question before I think you dismissed as rhetorical. Just as a little thought experiment: What would Nolan have to do to prove to you that the machine worked, if it did? You seem to be so convinced that no amount of evidence would change your mind (even the two eye witnesses that Nolan provides, Cutter and Bordon). What, if placed in the movie, would have made you say “See? It had to have worked.” Just curious.
OH one thing: If Angier didn’t know which of his last 100 shows Bordon would come to, and he was using a double (not a clone), why was the water tank (with the real lock) under the stage? Unless he kills a double every night?
ALSO: There is a good point that if the machine didn’t work, Angier pretended it did to exact his revenge on Bordon. This goes along with why he wrote up his own diary (in response to Bordon’s, which WE see later but that happened, chronologically, before) and had his manservant give it to Bordon in prison–to detail the workings of the machine. Why else would he make it and have it delivered to Bordon? There was nothing else in there that would give Angier satisfaction from Bordon reading it aside from the details of his cloning machine. People would point to the mini-reveal at the end of the diary that Angier knows Bordon is reading it from his prison cell, but he comes dressed at Caudlow later on. Therefore, he didn’t need the diary to do the mini-reveal. It’s only other purpose is to lead Bordon astray. BY THE WAY, the fact that Angier puts in his diary the fact that he knows Bordon is reading it from prison is evidence that it was written after he came up with his revenge plan, making everything in there (yes, including the record of the workings of the machine) subject to question.
I am so divided!! I keep coming up with evidence for opposite points. This is frustrating me now lol
Ok – that was a non-rhetorical question – here’s me attempting to answer it. It’s actually quite simple.
Movie starts with the guys feuding and trying to beat the other. They detail out the magic that they are learning but then one or both start shifting into science or even alchemy. And we see little payoffs here and there showing the real magic working. We see scenes where they sell out to this and go all in at all costs. The magik gets more complex and more powerful. Then we get the cloning machine and the evil / science reaches it’s natural conclusion and voilà – we have clones running here there and everywhere.
This movie that Nolan gave us though is not that. The only thing we see the two throw themselves into is not just better mechanical trickery but also STAGE CRAFT and STAGE PERFORMANCE. Borden is derided for being the lesser performer. And Angiers is similarly derided for his lame tricks. Both learn from each other and try to better the other in these skills.
Oh and then they start cloning humans.
Eh? I really think the one critical thing I can say about Nolan is that he gives his audience too much credit. (I cannot believe I just said that out loud.) but it’s true. He assumes too much. Or he doesn’t give a flying fig. Either way – he missed the mark with this movie only because he didn’t show his hand just a tad more. To American audiences the narrator is god and isn’t to be trifled with. Yet, Nolan triffled away.
Anyway. Not sure I answered your q – but I gave it a go anyway.
Tay
i am a huge fan of movies with unreliable narrators (the sixth sense, shutter island <3, fight club, primal fear, the uninvited, etc.) so im not against his practice. in fact, it interests me. i just wish i had something to point to, something solid (but we've gone over that already)
and i understand completely where you're coming from, how it doesnt fit. but i think that maybe rather than admitting nolan made a semi-inconsistent movie, you're rationalizing away his failings.
that having been said, you make a good argument for why your theory would make sense, and i totally agree with it. however, i dont see any proof that its what nolan did
i've got to hand it to you, seriously: this is some intense stuff, and you've made some really great points. usually, im not likely to change my mind in a debate, but i've been questioning my own beliefs. so, as you would say, kudos.
haha and you did answer my question, to an extent. if the movie had given you more clues along the way that there would be a scifi explanation as opposed to a logical one you would have believed. im going to go watch it again — i just cant accept that nolan left no clues. im going to watch the scene with the tank again haha maybe there's something in the floating angier that will give us a hint its a double.
eh the machine probably didnt work. apparently the author of the book said, after seeing the movie THREE times, ‘Well, holy shit.’ I was thinking, ‘God, I like that,’ and ‘Oh, I wish I’d thought of that.’”
hmm.
you know what, i think the machine worked.
i believe the “are you watching closely?” wasnt about the “trick” of the movie, but about the art of illusion itself.
the audience wants to see the trick and be fooled, not what lies behind it. that is the main point of the movie.
here is the irony: it WASNT a trick that they saw. the “great trick”, the transporting man, is real. and they know it, or want to at any rate. they want to think that one angier went into the machine and the same person came out on the other side of the theater. the truth is, what lies behind it is sick and evil, murder. its not a trick. and this is the biggest trick of all: he has given the audience real magic, and they dismiss it as entertainment. he is willing to do all this for “the look on their faces”. he has become the better magician because of the effect he produces, the “wonder”. it isnt about the trick, the technical apsects, performance, filling seats, or anything else different characters championed throughout the picture. its about the effect, as angier’s final speech details.
i think i’ve finally made up my mind, and made peace with the thematic inconsistencies (i hope)
THE MACHINE DIDNT WORK!!
(okay, im DONE. this is proof. i just saw the movie like five minutes ago. i’ve decided.)
I have proof this time! Haha! I knew Nolan wouldn’t to that to me (uh, i mean us….)
we never see anything impossible happen.
it has been years since cutter sees angier by the time he’s doing his final round of shows. he’s had plenty of time to find/make a new double. and, as the movie’s theme suggests, cutter sees what he wants to see. and as for ackerman, he has a record of being duped (“it’s been many years since i’ve seen real magic”, implying he both believes in real magic and thinks he has seen it before)
tesla has a track record of making machines that only produce light shows. when we see bordon’s trick (re-vamped with olivia as his assistant), he has boxes kind of like angier’s that create sparks like the machine angier has. but we know bordon didnt use a cloning machine. his machine is just for show. but it produces the same effect angier’s does!
that’s how bordon knows tesla and how he comes up with the idea to lead angier astray. you were right, taylor, bordon did meet up with tesla at that show we saw early in the film. and he had him build the boxes for effect. he saw the way the audience reacted to tesla’s work. he needed that little extra something to sell his trick.
and now for the proof:
it’s a machine, right? a machine produces a result, (arguably) the same one over and over, in the sense that a machine cannot change itself or what it does.
the machine allegedly creates two angiers, one who drowns and one who somehow gets to the other side of the theater.
it does this every time, without exception. that’s what it does.
HOWEVER, on the night bordon is framed, the machine could not have worked. but, we saw it behave just a it did every other time, right? well. the machine produces two angiers. we covered this. on the night “angier” drowns, if a second angier were produced in the balcony in front of everyone and taken his bow, HOW was bordon framed for murder? he couldnt have murdered someone who, at the time he was supposed to have been drowning him, appears in front of an audience of hundreds.
the night he was framed the machine turns on, shoots sparks, and produces no clone.
but this is so simple. how did i not notice it before? because. as you said all along taylor, nolan is using misdirection BUT as i said, you should be able to detect it if you watch closely. we never see angier take the bow, or not take it. we briefly see the audience and hear bordon shouting from below, but for a VERY small amount of time. enough to suport the fact that a clone didnt appear, giving us the proof we need, IF WE’RE WATCHING CLOSELY (and the clone couldnt have hid, as at least ONE person in the audience must have seen the show before and would have been looking for it in the spot it was known to have appeared).
angier had finally become the better showman. in creating his own greatest trick and not letting his obsession with bordon’s method get in the way, he had truly become the better showman. he stepped up his game, got a good double, trained him. it isnt hard to teach someone to speak like him, remember, because angier himself is putting on an accent (he’s the british lord caldlow). he could have trained someone in the art of the accent he’s been practicing for years. living his trick, in a way.
bordon’s demise was that he couldnt get angier out of his head. he went to that show because he had to. obsessed until the end. angier freed himself of his obsession, exacting his revenge to get some closure. (he’s given up his obsession, as evidenced by him ripping up bordon’s secret. EVIDENCE.) bordon even says to fallon “im sorry. i should have left him to his damn trick” as he’s being taken off to be hanged
“are you watching closely?” did you notice no clone appears in the final trick? that bordon had a tesla machine that did nothing?(and on a slightly less compelling note, we see tesla walking through his lights/sparks and not being cloned. more evidence that the lights mean nothing. we would need more evidence the machine worked than just seeing someone step through lights)
and angier was practiced in accents, remember, and had in fact been living his trick all along by taking on a type of persona.
and the tank filled with angiers? he WAS expecting someone to see them, whether it was bordon or someone else. when fallon sneaks up on him in the darkness, angier shouts “cutter?!”. he thinks cutter is down there with him, or could have been. if people have access to that room, he needs to make it look convincing.
there is evidence. i just wasnt really looking.
Well then, I tip my hat to you. Congratulations on settling the matter for yourself. As a side note – did you watch the special features and notice the scene where Christian Bale mentions how clever the movie is because “the movie, is one, you know. one big magic trick?”
(note – just went looking for Bale’s exact quote and stumbled upon these 2 other interesting quotes as well: “Nolan suggested that the actors should not read the book.” obviously because they are seismically different). And the 2nd quote – Serkis – who played Tesla’s assistant – described his character as a “gatekeeper”, a “conman”. A con man! Brilliant!).
Seriously though – pardon the digression – kudos (as you say I say) to you.
haha thanks. im insane.
did you really read all of my comments? its painful even for me to read them back haha
i dont know what time it is for you but here it’s 2 o’clock in the morning. i really am insane.
Yes,
Read them all. In your last post you had a lot of good stuff in it – but 1 thing you said was beyond brill and I’ve never considered it before. Where were the Tesla clones? Cats and hats we got. But where’d David Bowie’s double go? Cats are easy to dupe. Hats – more so even. But obviously there were no ex-labyrinth actors laying out there with the hats.
2am? Go to bed! Sounds like you had fun watching it this last time. Really goog write up!
Taylor
@Dana
“and the tank filled with angiers? he WAS expecting someone to see them”
I may be missing you point but what does that mean? I find it elf-contradicting. Where did these Angiers come from?
Also what makes you think the machine did not work in the final act? It might have. The cloned Angier might just hide after coming out of the box which might have been placed somewhere else.
(On a side note, I would myself prefer a theory which is based on the machine not working. That would be more linear with what we saw earlier in the film & prevent me from claiming this movie was screwed by the senseles & irrational sci-fi shoved in at the end)
But I seriosuly think Nolan failed on this one.
when i said the tank filled with angiers, i didnt mean the tanks were filled with angiers haha i know thats confusing, i meant to reference the theory that “angier” was in the tanks. doubles, wax figures, empty tanks, whatever your theory is.
saying it worked and the clone hid and snuck out of the back of the theater somewhere is a stretch. remember ally saying he had seen his show in london seven times? people see his shows more than once. at least ONE person in the theater (probably many, many more) would have seen it prior, and would have known where to look for the “clone”‘s reappearance. are we to believe no one saw it appear, go out into the lobby, go around back, etc. dressed exactly like angier? and if anyone, even ONE person saw it, the police would have had them testify at the trial. they were all witnesses, and it IS a murder investigation. they would have made sure.
also, the suggestion that the box was placed somewhere else doesnt make sense, as we’ve established that there was no way of knowing which of the shows bordon would come to. if the box was placed somewhere where the clone couldnt be seen, what would happen if bordon didnt go to the show that night? there would be no prestige?
(and as a side not to your side note, i agreed with you 100% until about 2am last night. if you need more convincing, skim a few of the points taylor and i made)
Technically, you’re right. But really, you seem to be only grasping for straws in the FAQ.
Although, the points you have made (even though I still disagree) are very good.
Clarify for me where I was reaching and I’d be happy to firm things up for ya. Watch it again. Read the theory. Voilà – insta-enlightenment just add water. You’ll see.
Hey, stopping back by to see if anything new came up. Taylor knows Im on the machine didn’t work side….
The tanks and the hats are the same thing folks, they’re the great diversion used by Angier (and Nolan) to make us think the machine is magical.
Nightly, Root would fall through the floor to saftey, allowing Angier to recieve his ‘Prestige’ n balcony. Root is a better actor when treated well, Ainger made sure of that the second time. Of course Angier knew eventually Borden would come and try to sabatoge his trick, think about how many times they do it to each other throughout the movie!
Paraphrasing here…but remember this line before the real transporterd man run…
Cutter: what kind of billing are you looking for
Ainger: The kind Borden cant ignore
Ainger/Cadlow is loaded. Buys tanks to be prepared for the night Borden shows up and goes underneath, this is how he can frame Borden, and rid himself of Root, the only other guy knowing the trick. The tank gets moved from center stage to beneath every night, Ainger scopes the crowd then informs blind stagehands of slight change on the special night.
Ainger never knew about the twin, hence never knowing Borden would arrive to shoot him. If machine worked his monlouge would have started with “your machine worked too!!” At that point Ainger was just preparing to destroy all the evidence(that he bought from the court/police/mourge… including Roots body in the one tank.
Cheers!
I think something which may prove that Tesla was planning this con could be the sudden appearance of the mysterious saboteurs. Angiers doesn’t know who they are until the hotel manager “lets” him on the secret that the men have been sent by Thomas Edison. The sabotage provided a convenient excuse for Mr.Tesla to flee.
I totally agree with you Jack. The contrived disappearance of Tesla which coincided with the lab and the experiments being destroyed – and the safe delivery of the “teleporting machine” – is way too much coincidence for me too.
I think it was more like the perfect time for Tesla to finally cut his ties with Angiers his starry eyed customer. Nothing else makes sense here. Edison as guerrilla activist and saboteur?!? Puh-lease. Angiers was duped by Borden and Tesla. And boy did he (and most of us) bite hard!
If you think that it is ridiculous that Edison was a saboteur then you haven’t studied the early patent wars in the film industry.
There is a HUGE difference between waging (and losing) a publicity campaign against AC and burning down someone’s lab. Yeah, Edison didn’t like competition and fought his competitors in the court system every chance he could get – afterall the guy was an opportunist. But it’s a huge distortion of history (and public record) to suggest Edison as being a violent theif and vandal.
The majority of these posts have too many flaws to their overall argument. Many have only believed in what they wanted to believe which not only covers the sci-fi side but every side. Some are excellent at explaining their percieved thoery of what happened. However they make the mistake of trying to disprove other theories forgetting that this was a film. A film can be or do whatever it wants to and this one especially exploits this. Some facts become lies while other facts remain facts to suit a given argument. My point being that this has been thought over waaaaaaaaaaaay too much by everyone including me and it ruins the film more than it enhances it. Good to debate but pretty much pointless, even my post.
#23 and #24 do not make any sense. You are just confusing the storyline even more. It made perfect sense without your theory that no one has ever mentioned before.
Dear Taylor,
I am sorry to tell you that you’ve made a mistake in your assumption: Nolan is a genius and because of that, the movie isn’t Sci Fi.
But I’m sorry to say:
This movie has Science Fiction elements in it. And even; Nolan wasn’t planning on making a “possible realistic” movie.
Let me explain the Sci Fi elements:
The lightbulbs in the field aren’t connected thrue wires, just put there in the ground. This is not possible so, Angier had to lie about it in his journal.
The capacitor joke, when Angier is holding a lightbulb and Tesla touched him. The bulb begins to glow. This is also not possible because we humans aren’t capacitors. If we were capacitors the bulb should faded slow to no emission of light all. Also this example could be a lie of Angier.
The third example isn’t in the journals at all. It’s about the Tesla machine. I don’t know if you ever felt a shock of a low power sparkling plug. But if you have you know that your finger isn’t further away from the plug than lets say a tenth of an inch, and when the sparks go over you feel pain.
So what will happen if you take a giant sparkling plug very high powered and put 2 yards away from you. And consider that the pain will will increase exponentially.
In other words you have a great chance of getting killed. And you definitely couldn’t walk thrue it like nothing is happening.
So jumping to conclusion, a lot of machines which Tesla made in this movie are Sci Fi.
Now, if you assume that you’re dealing with a Sci Fi movie. I think it isn’t that hard to believe that the machine worked. Actually if it did it would explain the whole movie, if you understand context.
for example about the sentence “You want to get fooled”; this only said because, if the public saw something which had only a supernatural solution than they get scared instead of being amazed. That’s why the director said “make it questionable”.
regards,
walt
Hey there Walt,
I understand your argument but I don’t buy it. But its well thought out and makes sense.
So personal question for you. You think it logically follows that he realistically cloned himself as an adult human, memories and all, and then proceeded to kill himself? You are ok with that answer? I personally am not. But I’ve made that clear already. I am though, interested in your response to this question.
Thanks for writing your logical flow… it really is good. Just faulty in its leap.
Taylor
Hey Taylor,
I actually belief that Nolan wanted us to think about this movie and tryed to make it “doubtable” for us to see it as a realistic movie. And I think he gave us some arguments for both cases. The movies seems realistic and definitly doesn’t look Sci Fi. But he put in some Sci Fi elements(I don’t know if he was aware of that). But it gives us 2 probable concepts to explain the movie.
1) It is a realistic movie and the Sci Fi elements are just special effects (or Nolan didn’t know this were impossible actions).
2) It’s got Sci Fi elements which are scientificly impossible. So that makes the cloning device definitly plausible.
These to eaxplanations are both plausible, but what are the consequences for these explanations?
What if the first is true:
Where does that leave Angier? He had to make a choice between; having the greatest trick on earth and killing himself everytime he does it, or lose the battle to borden/fallon.
He chooses the first. I think that’s a way harder choice as borden and fallon had, chopping of 2 fingers which offcourse is also dedication to your trick, but nothing compared to Angiers dedication.
That means that Nolan wanted to shock you with the following; are you actually prepared to give your own life to be the best?
What if second is true:
The movie would the most clever movie there is in my oppinion, Nolan seduced almost everyone to the wrong path of explanation. And that only a few (2%) actually knew his true intentions.
So which one is correct?
The first one? which gives us a philosophical question at the end, what a lot of great (Nolan) movies do.
Or second one which means that this movie is a piece of art which almost no-one fully understand.
I think we’ve to ask Nolan. You?
Walt
I agree that there must be more to this movie than a simple science fiction explanation, but I have to point out that a couple of your arguments are wrong. After your 25 points you ask, “Why would Angier want to know the secret if he created a better trick with the cloning machine?” Curiosity of course. He would want to know how Borden did the trick without the use of a machine. Without “cheating.”
Second, you ask, “Why would Borden be flummoxed by Angier’s trick?” Thats simple. He never knew a real cloning machine existed. The one that Tesla made for Borden was merely for show and misdirection. All it did was shoot sparks. Borden didn’t have the money to buy a real cloning machine.
@ Walt,
Just for the record; the Tesla experiments depicted (powering bulbs through ground current, using the human body as a conductor for a light bulb, and tesla coils) are all possible and have been done. Don’t believe me? Go on youtube.
@Everyone else,
I don’t want to add my two cents about this debate. I can’t develop a theory that satisfactorily explains all the details. I’d tentatively side with those that believe the machine DOESN’T work, but I don’t buy many of the arguments advanced regarding this hypothesis. Note that we see three dead Angier’s, not TWO. There is the one who drowns in the tank and subsequently appears on the slab, the one who is shot, and the one in the tank in the closing scene. This invalidates the Root/Lord C theory, because it leaves a body unaccounted for (not to mention all the flaws about that theory mentioned by others). The wax dummy theory etc etc is also invalid because we have two instances where a living Angiers is observed to die (the tank drowning, and the shooting).
It is a complete cop out to take the whole “macro vs micro” approach and ignore these details. The opinions I have read here concerning the wider ideology of the film are largely informed by personal opinion. It is a film that invites analysis, and as such, it can only be viewed as a success if it is possible to extrapolate the answers from the clues provided to us, without outlandish hypotheses (AKA wax dummies, Angiers having a twin etc: this is grasping at straws). I agree however, that a sci fi answer is unsatisfactory and seems to run counter to the whole “you want to be fooled” refrain.
I personally think that people are over committed to the idea of Nolan as some genius director who is incapable of delivering the same lazy plot conventions that commonly accompany blockbusters. The final twist – the shot of a body in the tank at the end is there to ensure that the whole thing is fundamentally unsolvable and to cause the movie to be the focus of more debate than it merits. It’s a bit like the spinning top at the end of Inception; thats the real trick. Directors want their movies to be enigmatic, and they know that the best/easiest way to achieve this is to incorporate enough logical inconsistencies into the plot that the riddle can’t be solved, but not enough that viewers can’t at least attempt to overcome them. If this is what is going on here, then it is a good movie from a competent director, but not a great movie — it is slightly lazy.
Because I am an eternal optimist I look forward to checking back here and hopefully finding that someone has advanced a theory that allows all the clues to slide neatly into place with no straining of interpretation. Unfortunately from what I have read up to this point, that seems unlikely. A couple of posts came close, but no one is being intellectually honest enough to actively confront the inconsistencies raised by either side. Facts and clues are used to support an argument, and inconsistent facts are ignored under the guise of not being too caught up with facts, or they are overborne by sub-theories and speculation that completely stretch the plot. In many cases they are just ignored outright with no explanation given.
As a parting note to Taylor: If you do reply to this, please refrain from patronizingly applauding my ability to have, and argue for, an opinion. I’ve seen a lot of that strewn throughout the comments and to be honest I’d prefer any response to be frank to the point of abrasiveness. Yes, its great that people have opinions. Yes, people can hold contrary views and nevertheless both argue well to support said views. We get it. I just don’t like seeing this sort of masturbatory flattery coupled with statements that clearly indicate you believe you are 100% correct and hold the higher ground in this debate. Examples: “Thankfully, the movie is so stunningly brialliant 99% of the movie goers missed it.”, “I really think the one critical thing I can say about Nolan is that he gives his audience too much credit.”, “Clarify for me where I was reaching and I’d be happy to firm things up for ya. Watch it again. Read the theory. Voilà – insta-enlightenment just add water. You’ll see.”, “Regardless, I want to say that I really do respect anyone’s theory that is well thought out and considered. Take for example Conor. It is rare that I see someone so thoroughly think through the movie like you have. So kudos to you.”
you can’t have your cake and eat it too – either join my camp and be a straight out obnoxious bastard, or let the condescension slide…
/rant.
Troll,
I will never join your camp as deconstructionism is easy and doesn’t require a lick of thought to do. Positing a theory for others to dismantle, now that is what requires thought and intellectual honesty.
If I have come off as condescending, that wasn’t my intent – most people that consider this movie for the first haven’t even once considered that the machine doesn’t work. Not once. Poll ten of your friends randomly and I guarantee you that you’ll only come up with one or two that have considered this possibility on their own.
And lets get one thing straight, I know I’m not right. Nolan has made it clear that I can’t be. But the alternative is equally incorrect. The evidence is stacked against both arguments simultaneously and neither one can be definitively correct.
As for the macro/micro discussion that was 100% taken out of context. I have already put forward my theory on how it worked. The micro side note was only a side comment to keep people from missing the forest for the trees.
That is about all you are going to get from me until you positively put forward a relevant theory we can all dismantle and consider critically. Quit taking the easy road.
Hey Taylor,
#23 and #24 don’t make sense as typed; I think you mean:
23 – “Angier” attempts to get Borden to notice his surroundings – Borden doesn’t bite.
24 – “Angier” dies and Borden is reunited with his daughter.
Anyway, I ALSO don’t think the cloning machine worked – that was Tesla’s con on Angier. If the machine had worked, then every copy made (after the first one) would have known that he had the possibility of drowning. Even though he was a exact copy, the living clone (or the real Angier) would have retained the memory of how the trick worked and thus the earlier clone’s death on the previous night.
If the machine truly worked, it would have been impossible for the clone (or Angier) to have been suprised that they wound up in a dunk tank. Furthermore, I strongly belive that if Angier had ANY chance of falling into that tank, he would have definitely made a way of escape (i.e at least a key-type system similar to the one his wife used in her trick).
Despite his dedication to his craft, there is no way that Angier would chance killing himself or letting a clone continue living his life – which is why he had the gun as an “insurance policy” during his tall tale of relaying how the machine worked the first time.
It would be plausible for me to believe that Angier and Root had been performing the trick nightly (perhaps with an escapable water tank) and that Angier double crossed Root by putting a sealed tank in place the night he spotted Borden attend his show. That would explain the suprised look on Root’s face as he realized he wasn’t getting out of the tank that night.
However, if the machine did NOT work, then the hardest part for me to explain/accept would be the ending – where they definitively showed Angier’s body in one of the tanks. If indeed it’s a “3rd Angier”, then at this point, only 2 theories are possible.
1) Angier somehow got Root’s body from the morgue/cemetary and had him placed in one of the tanks (doesn’t explain the air bubble, but it’s plausible).
2) Angier also had a twin brother (I doubt this).
So in the end, this could all be a bunch of drivel. The machine could have worked and if so, Angier did end up killing multiple copies of himself to exact his revenge and then unfortunately met an untimely demise. Thus, all of his copies died with him… save one that was breathing in a tank at the end – air bubble ftw, lol.
~KK
Hey there KK awesome comments and good catch on the outline – much appreciated. Actually, what I meant was:
23 – “Angier” attempts to get “Fallon” to notice his surroundings – Borden doesn’t bite.
24 – “Angier” dies and “Fallon” is reunited with his daughter.
I love how you detailed out what the clone would have and wouldn’t have known. Which proves it even more clearly for me. I mean really? Cloning adults, clothes and all? And MEMORIES to boot?!? Even today our “cloning” capabilities amount to fetus duplication from a DNA standpoint, let alone at the atomic level.
BUT its science fiction – anything is possible! So even though we’ve been taught how the magic worked, how the turn lead to the prestige… how every magic trick ever done was accomplished… somehow we forget all of this and now we are suddenly watching a science fiction movie?!? I just don’t buy it because it doesn’t logically follow.
Now as for the “problem” of the machine not working – and the third Angier… If this is the only problem this theory has we are doing well. I normally don’t like trying to answer this because it’d destroy the show of the magic trick. The entire movie is a magic trick and the fun of it is being amazed that he put the sawn lady back together again. But to find out how the movie actually works makes it mundane! Like take for example the trick of the bullet catch. Once Borden’s wife is told how the trick works she is visibly disappointed. Right?
Regardless, I think there are several very plausible possibilities as to how the problem of the third Angier could be realistically resolved.
1. Madame Tussauds – much is made of that silly air bubble! Gah! It drives me crazy. Take a rock – drop it into a tub of water and I’ll be darned if it won’t have air bubbles on it. Especially in the concave locations (like a nostril). But I digress.
In this theory it could be that Angier created a wax figure for the tank(s). Who’s to say that only Madame Tussauds can make them? Would it be tricky? Yeah. Doable, sure. But obviously there still needs to be a double for the trick itself…
2. A Borden One Up – like you mention KK – it very well could have been a twin. We see evidence of duplicity within Angiers’ life with his initial coyness regarding his fascination with the title Lord Caldlow while talking with his wife. We also see this play out towards the end of the movie as Lord Caldlow comes and goes to Borden in prison. Was it because he’d already done it? He’d had a twin all along? Was it really Angier playing Borden as the dunce by giving his nemesis all the extra line they wanted? Was it a case of the triple con? Not just a double back? Difficult, sure. Possible, definitely. Coincidental in the extreme – yes. But possible.
3. Calling All Doubles! – So who’s to say Angier, on his world wide trip didn’t put out a search for an identical twin of his? It only took him a couple days to find someone that (save for the teeth and the ears) was the spitting image. Why couldn’t he do it again? Especially since we don’t know how long he took to return from America. And this time he chisels on his imperfections a bit and squares him away even better than he did with Root’s. Difficult – somewhat, but not that difficult considering.
—-
Regardless of the answer I believe that Angier saw his solution to the trick as settling and that he HAD to get back at Borden for his having the perfect magic trick. He really didn’t know how Borden did it in the end. Thus the surprise on Angiers face as Fallon explained how they did it. But this shows that Angier was just blindly wielding revenge because he’d been beaten, not because he wanted to actually create the best magic trick.
I think it is fair for people to be incensed and outraged to hear that a director lied to them. That the narrators were jaundiced and less than impartial. I get it that many of you become enraged at the thought that an American Movie would be capable of something so disingenuous. And so, no matter what, you have to believe in the magic trick because believing the alternative is unconscionable. Unimaginable.
That’s fine. I’m ok with that. But realizing the movie for what it really is, is infinitely more gratifying and satisfying than settling for the Magic Trick As Truth theory. But that’s just me.
okay, im going to do what my professors do when we give analytical theories on a work: WHERE in the text does it say something to support your theory?? you need to back it up with evidence. saying that the machine didnt work is fine, but only if you can supply hard evidence from christopher nolan, not just implications from the theme or your belief that it HAD to happen one way for the movie to fit your conception.
Hehehe,
Well to be honest, if you’ve read this page and you don’t buy it then we can just agree to disagree. I totally understand why you – and others like you – don’t want to see it because the magic trick is easier to believe. Its more palatable. He told us that aliens abducted him and transported him to the balcony – so it must be!
Again, we can agree to disagree. No worries here.
Taylor
@KK The moment after the trick, the two Angiers wouldn’t have known which one was which. Both would have exactly the same memories, and both would feel like they were the real Angier. So, to the clone who was born during performance 37, he would remember being teleported 37 times. Only during performance 38 would he fall into the tank. Thus Angier’s “I never knew if I would be in the tank or in the prestige,” speech. This is why he would have been surprised. He remembered surviving 37 (etc.) times, and finally he drowned.
@Taylor One flaw in your argument is the assumption that Angier is playing a trick on Borden by killing Root. He would have had no way to anticipate Borden going backstage on that particular night so as to drown his double. Another problem is that Angier isn’t telling us about him shooting his clone after the flash of light, Nolan is. Angier doesn’t mention that experience at all. Nolan was showing that to us as a reveal.
This idea is based on the “in cahoots” nod between Borden and Cutter at the end of the film:
What if Borden 1 (the one who loved Sarah, and the one who survived) was ready to live a normal life? He wants Borden 2 (the one who loved Olivia and was hanged) to stop pursuing Angier, but Borden 2 has basically become Angier (totally obsessed). So, Borden 1, in cahoots with Cutter, sets Borden 2 up. This is why Cutter stops Borden 2 from axing the tank. This is why Cutter testifies against Borden 2. I understand that this argument has flaws, but as you’ve stated all do.
This is exemplified by the fact that there has been provided no explanation, by any theory, that satisfies why Angier’s clone failed to appear in the prestige on that night. The idea that Angier was tricking Borden would require omniscience. The apparent plotline doesn’t explain it. It can’t have been Root. Either Borden would have noticed it was him at some point through the entire show up until then, or Cutter would have noticed at the morgue (it was noted that Root didn’t have Angier’s ripped physique). This, I believe, is a case of Chris Nolan fridge logic. This error was avoided in the book, but Chris needed the insane reveal, and so he made Angier omniscient for a night.
So.
I assert that, much like a magic trick, Nolan presents us with a reality (in which SF tech exists), and we look for something much deeper, thus supplying us with wonder and fascination.
Plus, you can see other dead bodies and silhouettes in the tanks. When Borden accuses Angier of making no sacrifice, Angier tells him to “look around.” That’s because his sacrifice was walking into the machine every night.
The moment where I was convinced of this is when Cutter tells Angier about what drowning is really like. Angier had justified killing off his clones like this by thinking they were “going home.” Cutter told him that he had tortured all of these men.
Oh, and P.S.
In the book, the machine works. Although differently than in the movie, it does work.
Hi Taylor,
I’m still of two minds on the whole cloning vs double debate. The thing that still keeps me hooked on the cloning idea is the scene where Cutter is showing the track to the investor and he says something along the lines of “but where the prestige” then Angier shows up behind him and he looks startled and says “forgive me it’s been a while since I’ve seen real magic” he then says something about them needing to dirty it up a bit so that the audience can really beleive it’s a trick. I guess it’s simple enough to explain that all away by saying that particular scene was narrated by Angier’s Diary and therefore a lie…idk
Also why would Cutter be supprised to find Angier alive? Even if he was at the front of the house and not able to see the trick performed, Cutter knew there was only one way that the trick was performed and that was with a double. He couldn’t have been that suprised that Angier would go as far as to kill someone to get revenge; he’d been watching him sink further and further into darkness for years. And this part isn’t narrarated by anyone.
Cheers on a theory that’s really made me think! I’ve been wondeing about this movie for years and it came back on TV last night.
Another thing that’s bothering me and the main reason for chiming in is the scene with Sarah and her nephew. Taylor, (or anyone) Do you have any idea what’s going in the scene when Borden follows her home and wants to go inside but she refuses then we see the other twin is waiting in the apartment? Is it that Sarah and one of the twins always knew that she knew the secret? At first it seems like the twin the loved Sarah followed her home and this is how they met but then it seems like the twin that loved her would be the one already in her apartment. This has bothered me for so long….Did I miss something?
@Matt – Let’s take this bit by bit…
This really isn’t that difficult to understand. Borden walks right up onto the stage and inspects the machine with a cheezy beard thing on. Really? It wasn’t that hard to see that he was standing there on the stage in front of everyone. At that moment Angier has the fake lock replaced with a real one. And voila, the Root Facsimile is an ex-parrot.
No, you are incorrect. Angier is speaking to Fallon (your Borden1) about how he did it… and we see a visualization of what he is saying outloud to Fallon. Watch it again. Sure, the scene isn’t being read from the books and narrated as the other passages are. But it is being told to Root via Angier while laying there on the floor.
As far as your Fallon/Cutter theory goes, its very clever. I like it on a lot of levels. It really is a very elegant but causes more problems than it solves at the end of the day. Sure, it explains Cutter stopping Borden and the Cutter testimony but if you follow the logic of it then its Fallon killing Borden in the tank that night. Not only does Fallon need to be omniscient he also needs to be omnipotent! Flip! How is Borden’s brother going to pull that little maneuver off? I think the relationship could have coalesced between Fallon and Cutter after Borden had been put in jail for the murder. Or maybe Cutter innately understood this when he saw Borden smacking on the tank with an ax and held him back? And it was a more organic playing out of this theory as opposed a premeditated play.
This is widely understood. Nolan also asked the actors NOT to read the book. And why would that be do you think? Bale disregarded this advice, but Nolan requested this anyway all the same. I personally think he did that because Nolan walked so far away from the original text that he didn’t want to muddy their minds with a science fiction approach. But that’s just me.
Allie, I’ll respond to you later tonight hopefully!
Taylor
I don’t really see this interaction with the investor as being any different than Angier’s own belief in the machine before he found out it really did nothing. Ooooh… cats! And Hats! WOW! But ultimately he realized he’d been conned after taking possession of the machine. If the investor had been given the chance at fiddling with it a bit he’d realize its just more of the same with amped up electricity. hehe.
This is a good question – but I’ve always assumed that Cutter was surprised that Angier was the one who survived. That there was either a twin involved or he was able to finally figure out how to end up at the front on the stage for the Prestige. I saw it more of a shock at seeing THE Angier again.
Good to hear its pushing it a little bit for you. I just enjoy talking through the details and the nuances. I really do believe I am right and that this is what Nolan intended (as opposed to Nolan’s open ended ending of Inception). But that is almost irrelevent – the conversation is good and especially when people are open enough to dialogue on the theory’s details as opposed to just throwing grenades and running.
On my first couple viewings this had never really crossed my mind… but I know what you mean. Once I realized that they switched places it almost seems like the wrong person made it onto the stage at the end of the prestige of this particular trick. (Almost like what we were talking about with Angier moments ago!) But I really do think Fallon said to his brother something ahead of time like – “Borden, that woman… she’s gorgeous. You have got to help me with this one!” Borden then does the after show chat and begins the wooing while Fallon goes to her apartment ahead of them and climbs in through the window. And Voila! Or vice versa. They did end up living the rest of their marriage like this anyway. Thus the power of Sarah’s suicide later on. The guys really did jack with her, no matter how true Fallon’s love for her was.
But that’s just my own take on how that went down. But you are right, the romantic in us says – HEY WAIT A MINUTE!
Hola, hola
“This really isn’t that difficult to understand. Borden walks right up onto the stage and inspects the machine with a cheezy beard thing on. Really? It wasn’t that hard to see that he was standing there on the stage in front of everyone. At that moment Angier has the fake lock replaced with a real one. And voila, the Root Facsimile is an ex-parrot.”
While they’re choosing people Angier is standing there, on stage, with his eyes closed, unless he’s mysteriously backstage and out of sight from everyone and the person onstage is Root… Then he changes the locks somehow, because he was waiting for Borden to show himself… This is adding problems to the original ones. Assuming that Angier, from his super-perch beats Borden downstairs (even though normally he’d have to be up on the balcony to accept the applause), then changes the locks, Angier/Root who falls into the tank never attempts to use the fake lock, to find out that it’s been replaced by a real one, he just looks surprised. The new explanation has more holes than the old one. Oh, another hole in your old explanation. According to everyone, Root couldn’t impersonate Angier’s voice. Especially not to perfection. And this is the final trick in Angier’s show, so Root would have had to have been onstage for the entire show impersonating Angier perfectly for your theory to be right. That, in addition to the fact that Borden recognized Root instantly the first time, and he would have again the second time, makes the idea that it’s Root utterly unsupported.
Oh, and in regards to the beard: Angier didn’t figure out that Fallon was Borden until his final breaths, when it was pretty cheezy.
“No, you are incorrect. Angier is speaking to Fallon (your Borden1) about how he did it… and we see a visualization of what he is saying outloud to Fallon. Watch it again. Sure, the scene isn’t being read from the books and narrated as the other passages are. But it is being told to Root via Angier while laying there on the floor.”
The last thing Angier says to Borden1 is “It takes everything.” Then the scene in question. Then “It took courage…” There is no explanation. You said it yourself, on all the other clips there was still narration. That’s because the characters were speaking during the other clips. Angier wasn’t telling Borden1 about that incident with the clone, Nolan was telling us. They wouldn’t have established a pattern of cut scenes with dialogue over them just to break it randomly and for no reason.
The whole Borden1 vs. Borden2 thing was a joke to illustrate that we can make up crazy plots all we want. The one that makes the most sense is the one most readily apparent. Everything is as it seems.
And as I said earlier:
Plus, you can see other dead bodies and silhouettes in the tanks. When Borden accuses Angier of making no sacrifice, Angier tells him to “look around.” That’s because his sacrifice was walking into the machine every night.
“This is widely understood. Nolan also asked the actors NOT to read the book. And why would that be do you think? Bale disregarded this advice, but Nolan requested this anyway all the same. I personally think he did that because Nolan walked so far away from the original text that he didn’t want to muddy their minds with a science fiction approach. But that’s just me.”
You’re ignoring the fact that it’s already a science fiction movie. Crazy electricity that doesn’t hurt anyone, the POSSIBILITY of clones, the suggestion of clones, the lightbulbs in the snow, the human superconductors, etc.
I think your theory is fun, but it’s grasping at straws.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the body in the morgue was Angier’s not Roots. Root was referred to as “not Hugh Jackman ripped” (paraphrasing) earlier, and the dead body is cleary Hugh Jackman ripped. Also, without any makeup on, or any of the crazy shit Cutter was putting on Root’s face, Cutter would have realized it was Root. They all would have.
This is the first Nolan film which actually seemed pretty straight forward to me…I had heard a lot about various theories and options, but I to me it just seems like what we see is what we get…
It doesn’t make sense to make all this other stuff up. I could make a pretty convinving argument that this entire story is about two men who struggle with multiple personality disorders, but its not. What happened was that the machine worked, Hugh Jackman couldn’t get over his lover’s death (its pretty important that his repetitious suicide happens in the exact same fashion as his wife’s), and that his demise was brought upon his obsession for revenge and some really crazy ass Tesla machine.
I would say that given the historical accuracy along with the parallels with the REAL Nikolai Tesla, the machine was working properly. Jackman thinks hes going to get win, but the prestige is that while his life disappears, Borden’s re appears…
Explanation of the end:
I too believe that this is a movie that is what it is. The plot is complex and genius, but once pieced together, it just… is. There are no theories necesary.
If you remember, Angier has 100 performances planned. In my opinion, this is key. It has been my assumption that Angier /knew/ that Fallon couldn’t resist coming, and that the night when Fallon went below stage, /that/ was the 100th performace. He had it planned not to appear on the balcony. He had it planned for Fallon (well, Borden to him) to find his body and be convicted of murder. Then Angier would go and live out his life as Lord Caldlow, taking Borden’s daughter and exacting a sickly revenge. Fallon was the one who ended up in jail. The clones were real. Borden loved Sara, Fallon loved Elizabeth. The end.
Carson!
Absolutely brilliant post until here:
Otherwise spot on my friend. Keep up the great comments!
Seriously – I’m mega cool being the odd man out with this theory. But I must say this to those of you who disagree with me. Why are you searching for this stuff on the interwebs? If you are right – then this is the lamest piece o’ crap film making to even hit celluloid. Worse than Ishtar bad. So here’s a question to all you ‘the machine worked’ fans – what’s your excuse for liking this movie since you are right and the movie makes no logical sense what so ever? Just curious.
Thanks!
Taylor
Taylor
How does believing that the clones are real cause the movie to be an illogical mess? I find the movie to be brilliant, and the plot is fun to piece together. But I don’t feel that this movie is hiding anything. Aside from the genius plot, the movie is exactly what it says it is. The problem is that you are trying to prove your theory with objects your own making. You can only use the facts that the movie presents to you.
Then again, I read the comments on your one Inception theory, and you even admitted that once you make a decision, you won’t accept other people’s theories, so its probably not even worth arguing.
Carson,
Sorry – I thought it was obvious. The Prestige lays out for us the mechanics of magic trick of magic trick. We see intimate details of how the following tricks actually work:
1. The Water Tank
2. The Bullet Catch
3. The Canary cage
4. The Chinese Fishbowl
5. The Teleporting Man
Etc Etc etc. We are introduced to the concept of the engineer and why the engineer is so important to the magician. We learn how the mechanics of the magic trick work with the details around the Pledge, the Turn and the Prestige. We are taken into the inner sanctum of the hallows of the halls of magic…
And then we are given a Science Fiction ending.
The PLEDGE – We see an ordinary Man
The TURN – We make the man disappear
The Prestige – We tell you ET is real
Yes. I like a good sci-fi movie. This isn’t my point. (Which by the way, if you haven’t seen Primer, see it pronto). This movie is not a science fiction movie no matter what anyone says. It just isn’t. And if it is then Nolan should be drawn and quartered… then eighthed… then sixteenthed.
That makes zero since at all. None.
The movie is a magic trick. Plain and simple. And the bulk of audiences have bought that the woman cut in two really was severed and then she was miraculously healed inside the box as well. That’s fine if that is what you want to believe, but that isn’t what happened. The movie is an optical illusion – and while that may feel unsatisfying to most – it is the only thing that makes sense.
Until next time.
Taylor
I would believe that the machine did not work, but there is simply no sufficient evidence to support such a theory. By the way, just a quick disproof of one of the possible explanations… An Angier twin? Really? If Angier had a twin, he would never have needed Root to start with.
And I don’t believe that sparks can clone mature human beings, memories, clothes and all. We can thus agree to disagree.
Cordially,
Taylor
“Angier’s technological solution – which suggests art as sacrifice, a phoenix-like death of the self – and Borden’s more meat-and-potatoes form of stagecraft embody the divide between the artist and the social being.”
Nicolas Rapold of Film Comment on the theme of “The Prestige”.
^ carson, you are my hero.
and taylor, once again, it has nothing to do with what anyone can do in “real life”. ive seen a shit ton of things (in good movies, mind you) that i dont believe can happen in real life but that nonetheless happen in the universe of the movie. have you ever seen star wars?!?!
sorry. nerd moment.
anyway, i know you dont want to believe it but as carson says, where’s the proof? if i tried to write a paper on this with your theory as my thesis, i’d fail because i had nothing to support it but what i THOUGHT the ending should be. it doesnt hold up :/
Dana,
you have just had your nerd badge removed for saying Star Wars isn’t real. Seriously uncool.
Outside of that – your paper with said insightful theory can’t be proven wrong. It may get lame points for its cheesy concept – but that is basically irrelevant. If its all a dream – its all a dream. Granted, any movie can be explained away utilizing this excuse – whole fields of philosophy have this as their bedrock premise. (Not to derail us here but Descartes’ entire career was based on his rebuttal of these types of philosophies.)
I don’t mind the dream machine and its thin hold on reality. What I do contest are the dream-like realities of this movie. Its Hollywoodness is thick in areas and would be easier to explain if it were a dream. (The skinny alley, the “nameless police forces chasing Cobb around the globe”, “bizarre weather patterns tormenting the dreamer”, etc.)
I personally like the idea of Mal not being dead. I am a hopeless romantic – and if there is a chance that Cobb & Mal have a chance to get back together again – I’m going to take it no matter the mental gymnastics necessary to pull it off. So heck yeah – I could definitely be wrong here. Where I KNOW I’m not wrong is in my prestige theory. With that one I am 100% spot on. hehe.
No seriously.
we’re on the prestige forum lol not inception
Oh FLIP! Man am I confused. WAIT ONE!
^ hahaha nice.
I prefer the machine not working. The blind men cannot see, but they would hear a drowning man thrashing around in the tank every night.
When Angier realized that the machine does not work, he saw that the only explanation after all is a double. Olivia had told him there were extra wigs and make up, but he was not ready to listen then.
Angier “does not know” whether he will disappear from the stage or appear above the audience. In fact he prefers this version of the trick, because he keeps Root below stage all the time and the audience gaze up in admiration. But he tries to misdirect and convince Borden of his superior skills to the end.
The “clone” does not appear in the audience. On this night, Angier stays below stage and pushes the tank under the trap door, instead of the cushion.
Angier does not have to wait for Borden to come on stage to plan the finale. The plant in the audience is the oldest trick in the book. Angier “plants” Borden in the audience, as a dupe, not a stooge. He knows that if Borden is in the audience, he will come on stage and go below to spy on the mechanism. It is what he has always done. He only has to know that Borden has come into the theatre – watch the entrance or box office. He does the switch with the cushions and tank, again copying Borden’s trick where he removed the cushion and damaged Angier permanently.
Angier sacrifices Root as well as Borden. Root has also willfully sabotaged Angier’s career. Angier gets his hands dirty and kills two birds – with one stone.
The tanks outside the theatre are the misdirection (pledge) that compel Borden to investigate how the trick is done.
Nolan’s films always have unreliable narrators – amnesic, dreaming, misdirecting.
The dummies in the tanks are just more misdirection should Borden sneak around.
Of course, they are also the “spinning top” that works its magic on the film audience. How do we interpret what we have just seen? Is it magical science fiction or a magic trick? Nolan leaves the possibilities evenly balanced.
Nicely done. Loved (and quoted) a few key concepts well thought through and noted. Nick, definitely my favorite comment of them all. Come, you haters – show me where the flaw in this logic is…
Very nicely played indeed. Thanks Nick.
Taylor
“Angier “does not know” whether he will disappear from the stage or appear above the audience. In fact he prefers this version of the trick, because he keeps Root below stage all the time and the audience gaze up in admiration. But he tries to misdirect and convince Borden of his superior skills to the end.”
This makes no sense. When did Root suddenly develop the ability to come present the trick? This was the whole reason that Angier had to be under the stage in the first transported man. In order for Angier to be up on the balcony, Root would have to do the pledge. This theory completely ignores a large chunk of the movie.
All Root has to do is announce the act and walk into the apparatus: what skill does this take?
You must have fell asleep for about half an hour in the middle of the movie… Unlike Bordon, whose ability is that of a magician, but who is a poor showman, Angier’s talent is showmanship. What he lacks in magician ability, he makes up for with his ability to do a dramatic pledge. This is why Angier had to be below stage in the first transported man. The minute Root would speak, it would be obvious that it wasn’t Angier (as stated by Cutter).
This is true for the original version. But the NEW and IMPROVED version – Angiers strolls over and walks through the sparks. There isn’t a ton of build up or wild gesticulatory promenading happening.
Nick, I actually dig that – in that this solves Angier’s concern earlier in the movie about being stuck under the stage (per Carson’s comments) and it also would make sense in this new version that he’d solve this problem by utilizing Root (or a different double – whatever) in this new way on the front end and back ending the hoopla.
Carson, I get your point and its valid. But I also think that was relevant with a different trick. Not necessarily with the Tesla version. My two cents. But I’ll have to dig the movie out again and watch that one bit to see how hard it would be for Root (or a double) to pull off.
My 2 cents.
New and improved version? I’m lost…
In the earlier show, Root has exercised his “power” (as suggested by Borden)over Angier by screwing himself out of a job. If he wants to work again for Angier for big money, he stays sober, gets board and lodging, no cash, and a big pay-off after the 100th show. He can supposedly act enough to do the trick, if he’s sober.
Yeah, for some reason I thought you were referring to a new and improved version of the movie… Sorry. But there was still a build-up for The Trans Man 2.0. And Root sounds nothing like Angier.
So much pretension here. If the machine worked, then this movie becomes one of the worst movies of all time? I’m all for interesting and well thought out theories, but not when it comes with the attitude of “if I’m wrong, this movie sucks,” which is the equivalent of saying “you don’t agree with me, you’re an idiot,” wrapped up in polite conversation.
Mr. Vader –
You are more than welcome to enjoy the movie believing the machine worked. And I am entitled to believing the movie is illogical and fatally flawed otherwise. It has nothing to do with your opinion – nothing ‘tall. If it makes sense to you – then you are lucky in that you understand Nolan better than I can. And being a Nolan Fan Boy then you are better off than me!
Taylor
@ Vader
Well said. I feel the same way.
@ Taylor
He really has a point. You need to learn how to except other theories. I have read a couple occasions on here where you have actually implied that you were sorry that they aren’t as smart as you because they are unable to accept your theory. You fail to even acknowledge other peoples’ theories. They are just wrong. The blogs are good and the debates are fun… But at the same time, the debates are pointless and empty.
Carson –
Well said. If you – or anyone else took umbrage at my responses to their ideas or arguments I hereby offer my sincerest apology. I definitely don’t intend to imply anything about the opinion holder in responding strongly. So my apologies.
I do definitely believe (rightly or wrongly) that there is one answer to this movie. And I’m sure that comes out in my responses. I understand and clearly appreciate other theories – i just think they are imcorrect. Even if the right honorable Mr. Nolan wondered through and espoused a theory that advocated the machine’s not working I would respectfully disagree! So I’m sure I can sound harsh at times.
So thankyou Carson for setting me straight. Always appreciated.
Lord Vader, do forgive. No offesnse intended. I definitely appreciate the criticism – what I should say is that if the machine worked then I definitely believe it to be one of the most illogical ever. Though I’m open to being educated!
Hehe. Better? Seriously. No offense intended. I will say in my defense that other boards where I’ve mentioned this lil theory of mine have basically pilloried me for the espousing the most daft theory ever. It’s very very unkind. So if I’ve gone to the other extreme that wasnt my intention.
Regardless… Thanks everyone for the various theories and ideas posted throughout this conversation. It’s been a blast.
Taylor
I’m glad to see that went well… When I first posted I was worried that I was being too harsh. I’ve had fun as well, and though I have my own theory, I have still been planning on watching it again in the viewpoint of your theory.
Heheheh…
It is impossible to be too harsh with me while on the topic of the Prestige. Impossible. Especially in person. I’ve alienated whole branches of my family via this topic. Nevermind work alienations! Holy cow.
So – well played good sir, well played. Until your next viewing – which is soon I hope. Can’t wait to hear your updated perspective and how wrong I am! Take care.
Taylor
ps – happy 100th blog post comment everyone! heheh. Pretty incredible to think. And thanks for the over 22,000 words of comments! That’s like crazy. Lots of fun discussions here regardless.
Taylor:
We’ve talked this to death. I know. But I’ve just recently watched it–rewatched it three times in a row. And, I’ve got to tell you, your own argument proves itself wrong.
You say there is only one possible true ending because otherwise the movie isn’t playing fair with us, correct? It’s all about Nolan’s integrity as a creator.
Well, as I just said, I rewatched it just a moment ago and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the machine had to have worked because Angier did NOT use a double in the tank. The audience can see that it’s him–if Nolan were to have the double as the solution to the New Transported Man, he easily could have done some fancy footwork with the camera so as not to completely and utterly expose the face of the drowning man to the audience–but he DOES. And it is the face of Angier. Showing the audience what is clearly and unarguably Angier, and then having it be a double, is not playing fair with the audience. We should be able to see something IF WE’RE WATCHING CLOSELY. Which I certainly was. And it’s Angier drowning (or a clone, or what have you). Not a double.
In addition, Cutter identifies his body in the morgue. There is no getting around that. Saying he made a mistake isn’t playing fair with the audience–he’s never been wrong, or taken in by a trick–before. In fact, he was the only one to see Bordon’s trick for what it was. As a character, he is exceptionally perceptive. This mistake would come out of nowhere, and it isn’t playing fair with the audience.
If what your argument is based on is the necessity of an explanation to uphold the promise given at the beginning of the movie, and not have a scifi cop out because that would cheat the audience and be “the worst movie ever made” as you have put it previously, then how could such things be in place and the Prestige still be a fair movie?
Not to mention numerous other things, like why Angier didn’t learn his lesson from his dealing with Root that using a double only leads to trouble when they figure out their power. No–he’s far too smart and has too much to lose to repeat that mistake.
If this is a fair movie, the director cannot have a previously reliable character positively identify a body and have it be the body of someone else. That’s a cop out if I’ve ever seen one.
Dana
Taylor,
I believe its the best movie and calling it a sci-fi movie is an insult to it(actually calling oneself a ‘fool’)!
But I am baffled with these questions ;
1. In the last scene : Angier was surprised to see Borden out of prison and hence asks “a brother, a twin ?” If he is surprised how did he expect Borden to come to the theatre and hence why did he prepare so many glass boxes with some figures in them?
2. Angier always wanted to know Borden’s trick and still he tears away the paper in the jail when Borden hands him the answer. Why?
Some people are worried abt how 3 Angiers ? I think the one on the slab and in the tank is same …..After a body is declared dead it is given away to the takers for cremation etc ..so Cutter took it..Whats the big deal..
I know I am late but it ll be grt if someone answers the two questions..
Vaibhav
hey taylor
i think it is easier to accept this as a film that sacrifices plot in favour of emphasising the themes of sacrifice to achieve greatness, juxtaposing two men who never lived a full life with another who has died tens of times.
simply put, the theory that root is used as a double for the “real” trick is missing the point of the movie completely. it over complicates the film just to tie a neat little bow around everything. there is absolutely no way that the person at 1:43:06 is anyone but angier. the man on screen does not have disjointed earlobes (as root has) and therefore is a clone of angier.
so unless youre going to put forth that angier found the man who made him a cripple, convinced him to play along and get plastic surgery then i’m afraid i’m going to have to call you a fanboy who has idolised nolan so much that you can’t believe he could dip into sci fi.
if you analyse plot over themes then i think you’ve missed the point of the prestige. to do so means you have to add a lot to the movie (he found root, tesla conned him etc. etc.) and ignore a lot of what is happening.
as for the why would he have 100 identical tanks at the end, he has a machine that clones stuff! it was obvious to me that he cloned the tank that his wife died in so that he could die the same way as her – they ALL were the tank she drowned in.
i look forward to your rebuttal.
@vaibhav – good questions both. They were two of the most concerning for me as well. Not the question of the tanks, not the machine… But Angier’s reactions to the long con he’d just fallen for.
So my take is thus. Angier so badly wants to beat Borden that all sense is driven from his brain. Remember back to the Cutter conversation Angier had where they discuss how Borden did his teleporting man trick? Angier just couldn’t fathom that it was a double. He was certain the trick was more profound than that. And so he spent his life outdoing his number one rival utilizing what he believed to be a poor facsimile of Borden’s more perfect trick sans double (or whatever). Right?
He spends a fortune on a machine that doesn’t work and ends up developing the same ‘flawed’ trick with a double all over again. Except this time there was a hook. He was going to catch his chief competitor in a trap while he was at it. But he still didn’t know how Borden did his version. He just over thought it.
Then Borden’s brother arrives back stage and shoots him. He is so baffled because it just didn’t occur to him that it was a twin all along. It was just too obvious for him to believe all along.
This one is simpler and more complex at the same time. Ultimately Angier is motivated by pride beyond all else. Angier’s pièce de résistance was this moment. To have the self control and to take the one thing he wanted more in his life than anything and to throw it away was an amazing show of self restraint. Marvelous really.
But to give his chief competition the satisfaction of watching him read the solution to their best trick was out of the question! Which proves it all the more that Angier had no idea how te trick worked. The cloning machine couldn’t have worked. If it had he wouldn’t have asked “a brother, a twin”. He would have said – “a clone?”. This much is obvious. But he didn’t did he?
Anyway… I digress. Thanks for your insightful questions! Do take care.
Taylor
Hey Taylor,
I wanted to say that I agree whith your whole post, yaaaaaay !
I saw The Prestige for the 1st time last week (how did I survive until then ?), and absolutely loved it.
On a litterary level, I really liked the theme of the doubles, the mirrors, the parallels between the birds (who are DOUBLES not CLONES) and the magicians. One has to die for the other to come out and be the Prestige. Also : Angier drowns like Julia, Borden is hung like Sarah.
I had 2 complaints though. The first one is one of personnal taste : I found it hard to be involved with a movie in which I hated the 2 main characters. But then Twin Borden arrived and I liked him more than the super ambitious one.
The 2nd one is of course : WHAT THE EFF IS GOING ON WITH THAT MACHINE ?? At first when I saw the hats, I really didn’t believe in it. It was clear to me that Tesla and his assistant had bought the same hat (that’s why they kept Angier’s : they were able to find the same one with the money he gave them). And there were only 2 cats ! The original one and the so-called “cloned” one. Tesla’s assistant, whose name I can’t remember right now (the only one that comes to my mind is Gollum), made it clear that it was the first time that they were experimenting on the cat ; so in the end they only had to find a DOUBLE. Which was super easy as the cat was all black, and didn’t have a complicated pattern.
So I kept expecting a reveal about the machine, that it was a fake. I actually couldn’t believe Angier went for it so easily (and Tesla to go “oooooh it’s amaaaaaazing, now I’m gonna disappear with your money !”), but at this time of industrial development where electricity itself was “magic” for some people, maybe they were ready to believe anything as being part of the Progress that was going on.
But then we had the “flash-back” in which Angier kills his clone, and the bodies in the tanks and the fact that killing each night a clone and being reborn as the Prestige actually makes sense in a sci-fi context. It becomes logic.
The problem is, I really can’t accept that. It was too disapointing coming from Nolan and the message he gave us during that whole movie : the movie IS the trick, and he’s just trying to confuse us with the mixed-up narration and the doubles and the pretty sparks as you say !
My conclusion is that the machine didn’t work, even with the arguments that defend the clone theory which makes sense in some way. But I can’t accept that the guy that did Inception, could tell us a story about magic, how it works, how there’s always something, always a secret that the audience itself doesn’t want to figure out, would gave us a SF conclusion !
The Angier drowning in the tank is the only real thing that could make me doubt. But I do believe in the DOUBLES (but wow, they were really alike), and obviously Angier knew that Borden was there to set him up that night and the bubble was just another illusion. Angier lived his trick, that’s why Borden/Fallon was able to witness the removal of the tanks each night (the old chinese man also left his show the same way).
But I guess we can’t have all the answers and it’s for the best ! Though I think that the people who defend the clone theory are wrong (no harm intended, I swear !). To say that there were clones, and that’s it, and we shouldn’t go further, we shouldn’t over-think it, is completely missing the point, the very essence of the movie, its plot and its message.
It’s all part of the trick, unexplained elements to bring you the Prestige, the amazement that we have when we wonder “Wooow how did he do that ??”.
Question best left unanswered.
Morgane,
I have but one thing to say to your comments:
My job here is done. I have nothing else to say. hehe. Seriously though, I think you some my own position up very nicely. Yeah, there are things that I can’t completely rectify. But at the end of the day, it is the only logical solution to the movie quandaries.
Until next time,
Taylor
Christopher,
It has nothing to do with being a fan-boy. Though I definitely am a Nolan fan-boy and have been since day one. Basically what you sound like you are saying is that unless I believe Nolan is capable of screwing up a movie, I’ve got my head buried in the sand. Because ultimately, what you are saying is exactly that. You know what – I’m going to say this directly to Mr. Nolan himself.
Ok – so that was a little tongue in cheek. And while I respect other’s opinion, I don’t think they are correct in their interpretation of the movie. The themes laid out here are not about the supernatural and science fiction. They are about revenge in the middle of this messy thing called life. Bloody relationships that curdle to a maddening crescendo. Not about aliens and reese’s pieces. That movie’s already been made.
So forgive me my disagreement with you. There are plenty of other boards out there where your voice is in the majority (as it is generally on this one.) But I, good sir, respectfully disagree.
Taylor
so how do you explain the earlobe thing?
Chris,
First explain to me how David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear, and then I’ll explain to you the glorious mysteries surrounding the “earlobe thing”.
Sincerely,
Taylor
just to clarify, jackman had his face modified while he was portraying root – his nose has been enlarged and his earlobes changed, they are subtle but there (as i would expect from such a nuanced and intelligent director).
they are not there once tesla machine is used during the trick. these are also not present on the dead body in the tank, or on the corpse.
if nolan had intended any of these bodies/people to be root instead of angier i’m sure that he would not forget to differentiate between angier and the doppelganger, as it would be lazy to do so – something we both can agree nolan is not.
until you can explain this i’m afraid i can’t see any validity for what you’ve said
Oh I get it. Believe me. But I appreciate the primer for others wandering through.
My point in invoking the copperfield statue of liberty trick was just to say – the movie is a magic trick. At the end of the day I don’t know how David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear… but I’m BETTING he didn’t actually move it. I don’t care how much evidence you show me that he picked it up and carried it to Long Island… I’m sticking with the logical conclusion that it was only a TRICK.
Now, I could be wrong there… but I doubt it. Similarly, even though I can’t explain to you the earlobe thing – it doesn’t mean the machine worked. The entire movie is a magic trick. Plain and simple.
This thread has discussed the earlobes and the teeth in so much detail I can’t handle another round. But to sum up, it could be:
a. Another twin?
b. Root, round two?
c. Another double?
d. A guest appearance by Anakin Skywalker?
You’ve declared me a fan-boy if I believe its Root come back or another cosmetic surgery victim. So that leaves the twin option or Anakin Skywalker.
Either way, you aren’t going to buy what I’m selling and I’m not buying what you are selling. I’m actually alright with that. Its a fun discussion and appreciate your taking the time to chat. It just comes down to the basic philosophy behind how you view the movie. You are cool with the leap to sci-fi – and I am not. Just doesn’t make any sense at all.
taylor
agree to disagree – i don’t see how ignoring what the movie presents and adding your own information to suit your view makes sense either. reminds me of intelligent design’s arguments against evolution for some reason
Let me preface my comments by thanking everyone for their insight into The Prestige and Memento.
I have spent an hour or so pouring through many of the comments and theories on both pages, and felt the need to post a quick thought.
My thought is pretty simple.
Why not take both of these movies at face value?
I have enjoyed all of Nolan’s movies and, while they make take a minute or two to dissect, really are quite interesting stories on a basic level.
I am not going to go through the plot, or anything along those lines, as they are there right in front of the audience. If we are really to believe the ideas set forth above, however, then it seems to me that we can invent our own theories for any film, not just a Nolan film.
This sort of reminds me of the old Sopranos discussion board where folks would throw some high-end explanations behind the motivations and actions of the characters as if David Chase was some kind of super genius, disregarding the actual story and dismissing it, if not for this higher understanding.
Christopher Nolan is a gifted director and a great storyteller. I cannot believe he would construct a movie, like The Prestige, in such a way that it took a higher level of understanding to comprehend. It is a great story with a few twists and turns, that leaves, even a casual viewer content. If calling it sci-fi is a bad thing, then call it a dramatic fantasy.
I have viewed it a number of times, and upon each viewing, I do notice something new and different, but nothing that takes me to the outer reaches defined here.
I have enjoyed reading the plot dissections, and they have given me much food for thought. I look forward to more ideas and really appreciate the time and thoughts everyone has put into these pages. It just seems to me that with everyone, in my opinion, somewhat over thinking the directors intentions, we may just be missing the actual story, which stands on it’s own.
It may not be a great film but, in reality, just a really good story.
Thanks again.
@Chuck – well spoken comment. Thanks for taking time out to read, reflect and come to your own opinion. Definitely appreciate people who listen to both sides and reflect on what evidence seems to say to them before making a decision. So, well done.
I do agree with you generally. Most movies cry out for a literal translation/interpretation. It is rare (more specifically in American movies) for the audience to be asked to come to an interpretation of what is being shown to them. Even the most complex of movies wrap a bow on the movie for the user at the end of the day. Take for example The Usual Suspects. Having the entire movie completely dismantled in front of our eyes was a thing of beauty. But without that final explanation of the bulletin board, I’m guessing most people would have completely disagreed with that interpretation. We are literalists when it comes to movies. Paintings – no. Literature – no. Poetry – no. Music – no. Movies – heck ya.
So, I completely understand where you are coming from Chuck. I would like to ask for your opinion on another famous movie as a parallel. Just for your opinion. What about Blade Runner? Should that have been more literally interpreted? Or was there something deeper going on? To put it more succinctly – was Deckard an android?
Regardless of your answer – thanks for reading and posting!!
Taylor
Tesla’s machine must have worked there’s no way Angier could get that many doubles, I believe the deal was 5 days a week for 100 shows. I doubt that he could get that many people to go through with his plans. Also, the old guy, sorry can’t remember his name, identified the corpse as Angier. Now you could use the explanation of waterproof makeup but the first type of waterproof makeup, mascara, was introduced in 1930, 30 years after Tesla left Colorado Springs. And if you want to say there was plastic surgery involved that’s not possible. Plastic surgery in the 1800′s and early 1900′s was very crude and would have been noticed immediately by any doctor or coroner. Oh and face reconstruction through skin colored pads and glue would also be noticed and likely washed off in the struggle to get out of the water tank.
Justin!
I love the way you think. It’s so flippin awesome. The birth date of mascara, plastic surgery, face reconstruction… etc etc. Brilliant.
Now, remind me when cloning of adult humans was invented? Oh right. Never. Its convenient to use the real world for your argument when it suits, but not for the entire crux of the problem. I think just like you do. Tesla, in real life, didn’t invent a cloning/teleporting machine, and therefore the trick is exactly that… a trick.
How did he get another double (you don’t need 100 – just one) is now the question. Do I know? No. I don’t. Do I need to know to believe it was just a trick… not really. Like I’ve said elsewhere in these comments – Copperfield made the statue of liberty “vanish”. Does that mean it actually vanished? No. It didn’t. Do I know how he did it? No. Do I have a guess or two. Yes. I do. But just because I don’t have definitive proof doesn’t mean Mr. Copperfield walked off with the nation’s most beloved statue. It just didn’t happen.
But I really do like the way you think. Makes PERFECT sense to me. Keep it up!!
Until next time,
Taylor
I find your article (and the countless comments!) fascinating. I think The Prestige is one of the best movies I have ever seen, especially because there CAN be so much debate about it. I feel like there is more evidence that the machine DOES work, but I’m just too reluctant to believe it! Overall I think that would completely undermine the theme of the movie. For it to be all “oh, tah-dah, we resolved everything by throwing in science fiction at the end!” just doesn’t make any sense for a movie with themes about the truth behind the illusions and audiences who want to be fooled by real magic. So I keep going back and forth over details and evidence and new theories…. but you know, what really shows Nolan’s genius is how it’s really impossible to prove either way. The fact that his movies inspire so much discussion just shows how amazing he is for making us actively think instead of passively accepting what a movie presents
I think he said in the extra features that that’s what a movie should do, and he loves it when people analyze and have random thought-processes about them (or something like that…)… So I guess it’s ok not to KNOW one way or the other, it’s just what you get out of the movie personally, and whether you can accept it at face value or prefer to find the lesson in deeper possible layers. (which is why I can’t stand it when people aren’t open to theories, and just post things on discussions like this like “duh! It’s so obvious what happened! Stop over-thinking everything!” that’s the point!)
I completely agree – the movie is good without the conjecture. But its brilliant with the conjecture and possibilities. And to consider the movie without it and shut down all the various options is fairly myopic in my opinion.
I would love to hear your opinion on why you think the machine worked. Always love to consider new views! Thanks for the post. Glad to hear you are enjoying the dialogue.
Taylor
Why did Cutter tell the judge that the machine was real? He goes into detail about how what the magicians do is all illusion, but how this machine was the real deal. What what the point of telling this to the judge if it was fake? If it was real?
Also, if Angier knew the machine was fake, then why did it still matter to him to retain it as Lord Caldlow?
Forgive me if the answers to these are obvious, I literally just finished watching it so my mind is buzzing at the moment. Very entertaining movie, just some extreme curiosities left over.
First, can I ask – is this your first time watching the movie? ‘Cause these are brilliant questions for a first timer. “The force is strong with this one…”
There are several options here. I have my own opinion, but generally each one is a legit option:
1. Cutter really does believe that the machine works. Angier kept him out of the mechanics of how the trick worked and maybe he bought it hook line and sinker?
2. Cutter sees right through the trick (as he did with Angier’s first teleported man trick), but in an attempt to help Angier get back at Borden who killed his wife with a similar trick he sides with Angier and witnesses on the deceased Angier’s behalf.
3. Cutter actually just wants the madness to stop. He’s seen Angier’s wife drown, Borden’s wife commit suicide, Borden shot, Fallon abducted and Angier ultimately (falsely) drowned. He’d had enough and the best way to end the chaos was to convince the jury that the trick was real and very unsafe. The only reasonable response was to get Fallon reconnected with his daughter and for Borden to hang.
Now, it could have also been a device to persuade the real magic trick audience (the viewers of the movie) that it was real. But utlimately that really isn’t a reason that is defensible logically within the bounds of the movie anyway.
Not 100% sure what you are getting at here. I think what you are asking is, “Why did Angier work so hard to get the plans from Borden while he was in jail if he already had the answer?” This is a fantastic question and may take me a minute to explain fully. I think we’ve discussed this elsewhere in this thread, but I’ll explain my theory again just in case.
The bottom line on this one is that I believe Angier actually does want to still know how Borden did his version. Remember that initially Angier believed Borden had some other way of doing the trick than a double. Cutter ultimately said – look, its a double… there’s no other way of doing this trick than with a double. Even if he is doing it some other way, the only way WE can do it is with a double. But Angier wasn’t convinced, he had to be doing something else. Right?
So ultimately Angier get’s the cypher to the book and then goes and sees Tesla. Tesla runs works him over and gives him an expensive spark machine that does nothing else but sparkle extravagantly. So he decides to incorporate the sparkle machine and upgrade his teleporting man’s trick’s theatrics. Right? But because the cypher proves that the diary was falsified just for him and the machine doesn’t work at all he’s still out in the dark wondering how Borden did his version.
“But” I hear you saying “HE CRUMPLES IT UP MAN!” Right? Well, yup, you are right he does. But when he came back to get Borden one last and fatal time he went all in. And get him he does. He kills him ultimately by setting him up as a murderer. But to let Borden know he’d won Lord Caldlow walks into the prison and pays for the prestige of the teleporting man trick. Borden knows immediately its Angier. And to complete his victory Angier crumples the prestige up in front of him.
This is Angier’s coup de’ tat. This is Angier’s master move.
But its a lie. Angier wants nothing more than to read that piece of paper. To find out exactly how Borden did his trick. He’d be admitting his defeat and his status as the lesser magician if he did so even though his trick got Borden hanged he still would have lost.
I’m sure that’s a long string of logic to piece together – but it makes sense to me. Would love to see the holes in this logic from your perspective.
Until next time,
Taylor
I must say, I love the quick reply, thanks!
And yes, it was the first time I had seen the movie and I loved it. But my girlfriend had fallen asleep immediately after it was over and all I wanted to do was talk about it haha. So I searched google and found myself here and I’m glad I did, there’s been a whole lot of great discussion.
I’m very happy with your explanations, they do make sense. I’ll admit, I really wanted to find evidence that the machine DID in fact work, but there doesn’t seem to be any definitive evidence to suggest this, and so that’s when logic kicks in, which is what I believe you have been using–gotta love logic! But isn’t it great that the movie even allows us to be able to question and discuss even after it’s over?
Also, thank you for declaring the force to be strong with me! Compliments are always much appreciated, especially when I’m currently trying to write a story of my own–one that I hope creates this kind of conversation someday. So with all the planning I’m doing to avoid plot-holes, I try to observe what other great movies/stories do. So once again, great discussion here, thanks all!
The movie is actually based on a book by Christopher Priest and in the book the machine actually clones Angier as is shown in the movie. It seems that because it was directed by Nolan, people have a need to dive deeper than is needed. Loved the Inception page and the Memento page but I think this one might just be looking for something more than it is, which is quite a good (not great) movie with a bit of a twist. Nolan has also directed the new Batman movies but we aren’t trying to find hidden meanings in it. My opinion anyway.
Hey there Grego,
Yeah – I’m aware. Thanks for the heads up! Nolan is on the record as telling his actors not to read the book and that he made massive changes to it. And for the better. I’ve read it, and I really wasn’t too impressed. Did you like it? I did like that it was science fiction from beginning to end. There was no other option there.
Oh, and sorry everyone, I am jacking the theme all around. Sorry for the weirdness the next couple days!
Taylor
You explaination is what I thought after seeing the film a few times. My mind has changed a bit on it though. Tesla actually COULD produced free energy. The lightbulbs in the snow scene may not be an exact replecation of what he could do, but it’s close. It is his theories about electrically charging particles in the air using radio waves that are used in WIFI. It is his ‘Death Ray’ that gave rise to the HARRP machine in Alaska, which experiments beaming hi powered radio waves in to the ionosphere. His ‘machines’ worked. This is where my curiosity with the film takes on another level again. Why make a film about a magic trick that isn’t a magic trick when the builder of the main prop of the trick could build and concieve ‘magic’ machines. I think Nolan is hinting at something even deeper again, a 4th layer to the trick if you like, a part next in line to the Prestige. Given that Inception also has a theme of what is real and what is not, illusion versus ‘reality’, I can’t help but think Nolan has another motive in his films, in the same way Stanley Kubrick did.Any thoughts on this folks?
“For example – why would Angier still be trying to get Borden’s method after having reproduced the trick with the Tesla machine? It logically doesn’t follow. He’d been duplicating himself successfully for months – why does he still need the method?”
Angier wasn’t interested in Borden’s method anymore. Remember, Angier tears the trick up right in front of him.
“So… explain that to me. If Borden was the one that directed Angiers to Tesla in order to get the cloning machine, why would he be so flummoxed by the trick? Wouldn’t it be obvious to Borden that his rival was using the same cloning methods as himself, only plotted out in a different way?”
Borden didn’t use cloning methods; he had a twin brother. He directed Angier to Tesla as a red herring after having purchased a stage prop from Tesla that generated lightning, inspired by what he saw at the exhibition.
You don’t seem to have an explanation for the lack of distinctive earlobes and other facial features on the drowned Angier that Borden was accused of murdering, or the fact that Cutter identified the body as Angier. If we’re simply supposed to dismiss that discrepancy as “Well, it’s all a trick anyway, so any old explanation will do,” then one may as well say, “Or Tesla’s duplicator actually worked.”
Some people try to dismiss the science-fiction aspect because they apparently weren’t aware of it before going into the film. It’s nothing more than a mechanism for the themes that the film was trying to drive home, one of them being that Angier killed himself every night to achieve what Borden accomplished easily with a twin. He limited the tour to 100 shows to force Borden to act, knowing that he would go backstage like before. He wanted Borden to know that he beat him.
If the machine doesn’t work, than the themes of obsession and sacrifice no longer function, particularly for Angier. Drowning himself was the metaphor for the nightly sacrifices he made as a performer. The hanging of Borden’s twin was the metaphor for Borden’s own sacrifice–his twin represented the loss of individuality in having to live a fake life, like the “Chinese magician” in the beginning of the film (who was based on a real magician from the early 20th century who pretended to be an old Chinese man and famously died during a bullet-catch trick, the same trick Borden does in the film).
The biggest evidence that the machine works is that the detail of Root’s differentiating facial features was intentionally displayed earlier in the film yet missing on the Angier who drowns in the end. If the functionality of the duplicator is indeed another trick on Angier’s part, than Nolan made a major continuity mistake in the depiction of the double, unless we invent an explanation that Angier somehow found an even more accurate double without any clue that this took place in a film that’s packed with obvious clues (the movie gives away several times that Borden has a twin before it’s explicitly revealed). Also, the idea that Angier would have dozens of wax figures to fill the tanks, or that he found and killed dozens of lookalikes, is too implausible. Angier would have to be an amazingly skilled serial killer and somehow locate 100 people that looked just like him for his 100-show tour.
I’m afraid it’s simply more plausible to accept the premise that carries the movie’s themes of revenge and sacrifice, even if it involves a science-fiction element.
I can not believe your explanations of some movies. I have just watched Memento and read your theories. Then I saw you have some theories about Prestige too, which I watched few weeks ago. Let me say you, I think you are crazy. You watch one movie over and over again.
“But I’ve just recently watched it–rewatched it three times in a row”.
Why the fuck you would do that? You really think producers wanted to make it so complicated to understand. For god’s sake, it is just a movie, after all. Some movies have holes in story. Mistakes. And that’s all. Some of movies are make only for people like you, with 1000 questions to ask.
My conclusion is that you’re insane. Really. That is the explanation of the movie. Taylor is insane.
Sad Pirate,
You are my new best friend. Seriously. I laughed, and laughed and laughed at your post. You are brilliant. If I wasn’t married already I’d marry you – whether you be a male or female – wouldn’t matter! You are that awesome! Brilliance I tell you, brilliance.
So I take it you believe the machine worked in the prestige and believe that Lenny was – what? Just a guy with a with some really bad luck? I actually think yer on to something. Still laughing. Heheheh.
Thanks for the chuckles Mr. Clown. Great start to my day!
Taylor
Oops – I meant Mr. Pirate. My bad!
I hope you’ve got my COMPLICATED comment, I cannot find it anywhere. If not, let me know.
Sincerely yours,
Mr. Pirate.
nope. no complicated comment. i only have the comment from you that is listed here. don’t leave me hangin!
taylor
Noooooo! But I tried so hard! Damn! It was so complicated I can even remember it. So…
In many movies, producers, director and other horror gang wants you to think over and over about movie. And every time you find some holes in their stories. That is the point. Let see… Mothman’s prophecy is a good movie which is mysterious but logical. But that movie can also be complicated. It’s easy to make it complicated, but it’s not easy to make it complicated and without holes. But, you are a funny guy. You think that you’ve missed the point of a movie, so you watch it 879 times to understand it. You even make abnormal theories. You went to deep, to deep.
As for the movies, if you really, really, really must know. But really! I will tell you my opinion.
1. Prestige: Stupid machine worked, yes. Yes, it is a SF movie. At the begging some manager guy oh that other guy said that machine is no trick, but pure magic. He want’s to destroy it. But… You think that other magician tricked everyone, but you! You think that that is all magic. I assure you that only few people would think that. One can rewatch Pocahontas and make it different and complicated if really wants.
2. Memento: Teddy did not lied. It would make, again, to complicated it and too much holes. So, Lenny somehow or maybe escaped or leave bedlam or wtf is that place called, and then manipulated himself to kill Teddy. It doesn’t really matter if his wife is killed by accident by him or in accident. That is the producers trick. For people like you. Rewatchers.
Hope you got my complicated comment!
Best wishes
Mr. Pirate.
Mr Pirate is making me laugh a lot. I’m glad I still get notifications whenever a new comment is posted.
MORGANE! Haha, long time no talk. Yes, our friend the pirate has been cracking me up all day. I even have been reading his posts to random people I work with. The funny thing is – 90% of the people I know agree with him! Guess i beat movies to a pulp in real life too! Its awesome.
Monsieur the Pirate,
I love your theories both. Brilliant inside and out. The machine worked (sci-fi no more no less) and Lennie is an honest guy. Perfect. Makes absolute perfect sense to me. Not sure exactly why people find the need to right comments on this page upwards of 3000 words or more! It’s so stinking simple! Hahahh. Good times.
Hey pirate my friend,
Have you seen Primer yet? I would KILL to get your opinion on that little movie. I’m sure it’s simple too – I just am not sure exactly how to pull that off. So I would appreciate the help of you could explain it to me!! Haha. Anyway, thanks for coming back and re-writing out your theories. Brought another smile to my face.
So long Morgane. Toodles Senjor Pirate!
Until next time,
Taylor
The thing is, I understand people who make their own opinion about the movie, especially The Prestige who really tries and mess up with your head, because there’s arguments both ways. But to look up “the prestige explained” and leave a comment about how we shouldn’t try and explain it, it’s just plain ridiculous.
Some people have a passion and they can spend a lot of time on it, that’s why it’s a passion. And even people who disagree with us (like my boyfriend), can agree that the movie still is ambiguous, and I respect them for their opinions. But to come here and say not to analyze anything Nolan does (“You re-watchers, you!!!”) is just announcing publicly your lack of wits.
Anyway, we know the meaning of it all : “Taylor is insane”. Hahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!
Dear Mr. Rewatcher.
I was more than happy when I read that you talk about my simple explanation. To be hones, I don’t like that you’ re talking randomly. I would more like if you would talk by some order. LOL. Ok, Pirate in 3, 2, 1…
I will make your wish true and soon watch that movie, Primer and let you know about my simple explanation. As for the movies, again, I don’t see anything wrong with my explanations. If you could argue a little more why my exp. sucks, that would be almost fine. I know, I know, you used 400 892 words (sum) to describe your opinion but I must be honest. I haven’t read them all.
Dear Miss (Mrs) Morgane
I did not say there is no need to analyze movies. At least, I think I did not. To me is very, very funny to rewatch a movie 3 times in a row because you think you’re missing the point. So, you (he) is the one who toughly wants to complicate it. If Mr. Rewatcher really, really, really insists I would make classical example of his complication process. Indeed.
Mr. Pirate,
I’d be happy to answer your questions and formally respond to your “theory” that the machine worked – but I’ve answered this question so many times above that it would be a serious re-hash of the same old territory we’ve already covered.
But to make you happy. Here’s my response. IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR THE MACHINE TO WORK. IT IS NOT A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE. Clear enough? The Prestige works too hard to be grounded in reality for this to be the answer. Makes zero sense. None. But hey – most people prefer to be told what to think… they like to have the director write a nice clear explanation of what happened in the movie they just watched – and to jerk around the audience? That is unconscionable.
I agree with Morgane, most people I know take every movie they watch at face value. One of my best friends wasn’t even aware that Harrison Ford’s character in Blade Runner was a robot. Which is fine. Just takes away a deeper level of understanding from the movie. If you prefer to be told what to think – that is fine. All good. I have no complaints with that. Just don’t tell me what to think. And allow me to think about other possible meanings on my own, thank you very much.
heheh.
t
I have expected something like that. I’m sorry, but if you could just copy paste your arguments to make me happy that would be almost fine….
1. Why you think machine didn’t work? I know you answered it many times, but still…
2. Why you think that some movies have deeper value? I have already announced I would give you an example of complicating issue if I may. I see you are very smart person, but unfortunately you are seeking deeper level where they may be none. I can not be sure, though you’re wrong… but still… It’s just a movie.
3. Please make a scenario. You would be great! Lol. Indeed.
Greetings from Mr. Pirate. No hard feelings! Wish you all the best.
PS. Drunk Mr. Pirate! Salute!
Is it because English is not my first language, or is it because Mr Pirate is always drunk, that I can’t understand his grammar nor his syntax ?
Probably both!
I love this answer !
I watched Prestige a few days ago, and I have a few questions (I’ve read your fine answers above).
How come Borden and Fallon are “fooled” by Angiers new teleported man? When Olivia Wenscombe joins Borden he tells her that he can easily see that Angier is using a double who is overweight (Rooth).
Who is the man that drowns in the tank in the first scene?
Would love to hear what you thought of it! And you are much too kind.
Borden is fooled. Fallon wants none of it. I have always thought that Borden was enamored with this new trick before him, so much some couldn’t see what was right before his eyes. He was caught up in the moment. Borden so loved the magic trick that he lost sight of reality. He became like us, in a sense. Uninitiated in the ways of the logic of the reality before him. The presentation just blew him so far away he believed that Angier had also come up with an updated solution. Not sure if I am making sense here but I’ve given it ago anyway.
That’s THE question isn’t it? Because, the poor schlep who dies at the beginning is actually the same guy who “dies” at the end of the movie. We have two options (sure, myriads of permutations there of, but still basically two) before us: 1. Either it was Angier’s clone (or the original, whichever) 2. Or it was a twin of some sort (Root part 2, another similar better adapted, or a real twin). These are our options.
I personally believe it is Root part 2. “But the earlobes man!”. The earlobes really are easy enough to fix with makeup or medically. Even back in the day. A real twin works too. Highly coincidental, but possible. Bottom line, it definitely wasn’t option 1. The machine DID NOT WORK, and no clones at all were present throughout the duration of this non-sci-fi movie.
But that’s just my opinion. What’s yours and why?
Taylor
I have to agree with your interpretation. First of all, I do not believe that Tesla’s machine ever worked. Angier knew this and his only purpose was to set up Borden and getting him convicted of murder. The set up is arranged as a magic trick with a pledge, a turn and the prestige.
It sure seems that Borden is obsessed with Angiers new trick. In the end he furiously shouts to Fallon: “What is going on under that stage? Why can’t you out think him?” He must have been fooled or unwilling to accept that Angier is doing the same trick with more theatrical features. In the end he also tells Angier that it takes nothing to steel another man’s trick. I guess that means that he has learned the truth behind Angier’s trick.
I do believe that Angier has found a new Rooth. The only “problem” with this explanation is that he has found a double who not only looks like Angier, but talks in the same way (as we see and hear the first time Borden goes to see the new transported man). But it is a feature Rooth did not have. And this part is the one that tricks me. Whats your view on that?
Ultimately it doesn’t really matter. It’ll be 100% conjecture because this is the Magic Trick of the movie. When you go to a magic show, the guy up on stage doesn’t tell you how he does his stuff. So it is with the movie. Christopher Nolan shows us a trick, and does not tell us how Angier did it. Actually he did tell us “how Angier did it” but he didn’t really tell us. If you get my meaning.
I think he could have helped Root morph as needed and paid him more. He could have spent his traveling time searching for another him. He could have gone and gotten his twin brother. No idea. And it really doesn’t matter how he did it, but that he did do it is what really matters in the end. I do completely agree with you that Borden’s intensity to understand what is going on under the stage is very interesting. But its that curiosity that drives the movie forward, that is for sure.
A cool thing to do is to watch the movie and figure out when Borden is on the screen and when Root is on the screen. When Root is interacting with his wife and when Borden is interacting with her. When Borden is interacting with Angier and when Root is… if you catch my meaning. Helps explain a lot of why they act the way they do if you have the figured out in each scene.
The second Tesla appears as a character in the movie, it did indeed become a science fiction movie.
I never could quite understand how neither Borden or Fallon ‘knew’ which knot was tied during that incident on stage. It just seemed too convenient of a plot device, seriously, how could they have forgotten such a crucial element to something so tragic?
Also, when exactly did Fallon/the twin enter the story? Was it after Borden had discovered he needed to ‘live’ the act in order to make his trick work, or had he and his brother been playing the act their entire lives?
Well, I always thought there were a couple things going on here. The first one is a partial answer to your second question. There were two Borden's potentially. One of them (Borden or Fallon) made the knot. So when Angier asks Borden, he was asking the wrong guy… and he really didn't know which knot "he" had tied. So he was being truthful. There were several occurrences like this that began to tip us off to the limited knowledge of the individual in front of us. "No, you don't love me today…" etc.
No, it was before then. I think he realized he wanted to pull a trick like that off even before he began to apprentice. So in short, he was doing it throughout the entire movie we were able to see. The very first occurrences we see chronologically were of them doing the water tank tricks… and they were obviously doing it then as I described above. But specifically when? Not sure, either way it was very clever. The question I have in return is, when did Angier start incorporating his twin! hahah. No seriously, when.
What’s all this fanboy mumbo jumbo? The argument is ridiculous. Why don’t you just got read the novel by Christoher Priest and get your answers?
Just saw someone mentioned the novel. I take my comment back.
Good on you Grego!
From an interview entitled, Nothing Up Their Sleeves with the Nolan brothers on writing the script for The Prestige:
Chris: There is one rule, and the rule is: you have to be prepared to change everything in the book. You have to be prepared to completely throw it away. That to me is an absolute.
Jonah: Yes, but that was never a question.
Chris: But that’s why it’s taken for granted [both laugh]. But it’s not ‘The only rule is, that there are no rules.’ There is one rule, which is that you have to be fearless in changing the book.
Just sayin.
I understand Angier had asked the wrong twin. My point is that why couldn’t the brothers communicate to each other as to which knot was tied. It seems strange the one that tied the knot would have been completely tight lipped about it the entire time. That way, later on when Angier had asked the second time (before he shoots in the catching bullet scene), the answer would’ve been revealed regardless of which twin was answering.
It was used as a driving motivator, or at least, the starting point of their rivalry. Something that important should not be such a gaping plot hole.
I get your point. Makes sense to me. Thinking about it personally, if my brother accidentally killed someone by screwing up a knot, and someone asked me which knot he tied I would try and protect him. I wouldn’t have said either way regardless of what he told me he did. In effect we know that he screwed up the knot. There really aren’t many other options. He got cocky, tried his clever new idea… and bone headed it. But I get it, crystal clarity on this point would have been good.
Sorry to disappoint you, but your theory that Angier used multiple doubles of himself in incorrect. In fact, Tesla’s machine actually worked. If you read the books you would understand that the machine creates a perfect duplicate of any object.
Shew! Finally, we’ve got that all cleared up! Close the comments. Notate the blog. Head em up and roll em out!
THE MACHINE WORKS!!! You guys focus so much on insignificant details that you fail to see the big picture. The moral of the story is what matters, not earlobes or whether or not Nolan used sci-fi! Boo-hoo, my favorite infallible genius director used sci-fi in an adaptation of a sci-fi book…waaahhhh!!! IIRC when Tesla and his assistant leave the machine for Angiers they recommend he doesn’t even use it! The story fails if he’s using doubles or wax figures or dummies. Angiers was cloning humans and killing them. The entire story is about the lengths men will go to. Borden/Fallon and their loss of identity, the difficult love triangles, Angiers and his grudges.
This was a great movie directed by a great director but when you dissect the story so much you destroy it. Honestly, who cares if the machine works or not. This story is not about a machine. This story is not about doubles or earlobes. It’s not about cats, hats or giant vats (of water). This story is about the obsessions men indulge. It’s about revenge, love, passion and insanity. This movie is not about a machine. It’s about the hearts of men. That, and one little red ball.
you’re totally rite joel..!!!
this guy’s an idiot. he obviously has not done enough research on which to base all of his nonsense. there is a freaking book! read it!
Yes, there was a book.
A book Christopher and his brother completely rewrote from beginning to end for the screenplay.
A book Nolan told the actors not to read.
A book who’s narration was totally overhauled into a narrative device that uses journals not an omniscient narrator.
A book that bears only the slightest resemblance to the movie.
In short, the book has no authority at all whatever on Nolan’s work.
Idiot or not – that is my opinion. And I’m betting you haven’t even read said book.
Taylor
Hey Taylor, I absolutely love the ideas about The Prestige that you have stated and I fully agree that the machine did NOT work and no clones were ever present in the movie.
I am however confused on one point.
The man drowning in the box when Borden enters backstage.
As you have said, there are a few options,
a) a clone
b) a “bloody good double”
c) a twin
d) Angier himself
I think I can safely rule out that it is not a clone or a twin. It also cannot be Angier himself, as Caldlow specifically remembers some of the details that Cutter told him in the past (the sailor story).
Therefore the only viable solution is that it is a double, but this leads me to a few questions. Where would Angier find so many doubles. Although it’s more than possible that the figures in the tank at the end of the movie are made of wax, we see that the one drowning is in fact animate. Angier had his agreement for a hundred shows, which would require 100 doubles.
Let’s just say he called in a few favors and somehow he ended up with a hundred people looking just like him, how does he go about doing the trick. Is the double given a private chat with Angier explaining that he has to pretend to be Angier for the performance, and at the end he has to die?
In short, how are these doubles being convinced to participate in a trick where they have to drown. Unless Angier lies to them and tells them that they are going to fall onto a bed instead of a tank, followed by the actual drowning.
I am very sorry if some of the solutions to my confusion are obvious. Thanks.
Hey there TG,
These are great questions. So much so that I’ll admit up front I don’t rightly know. It is a MAGIC trick after all. But since we are in agreement that it HAS to be a trick the rest is fairly irrelevant. But as I enjoy a round of conjecture just as much as the next person…
I personally would say that you can’t rule out it wasn’t a twin. Though quite a long shot – it could be that Angier (Lord Caldlow – whoever) had a twin in hiding, but I doubt it. But where you and I differ is that he only needs one duplicate. He doesn’t need 100. When do you see 100 Angiers aligned for all to see? You don’t. Every night, after the performance we see Borden watch Angier cart a large case of something along with his blind stagehands. Right? He’s doing that as a show for Borden… obviously. He only kills the one Angier ‘twin’ the night Borden comes behind the stage. It’d be easy enough to switch the stage lock out after he sees him come up on stage.
So, I really don’t know how Angier does the trick. But that’s the point of the movie. Whenever ever I watch a good magician do a trick I think about it later and just ponder the possibilities. And that is what we are doing here. ‘How COULD he have done it.’ And that is what I think here – how does Nolan think he could have done it? That’s all that really matters… how did Nolan pull it off? Fulling 98% of the American public into believing this is a science fiction movie. Its baffling.
What say you TG?
t
Hey there,
Your comments made me have an epiphany, I feel like I now understand what happened.
I feel awesome when I discuss Nolan movies like the Prestige, Inception, and Memento. It just fills me with this excitement, you know?
Looking forward to more posts by you.
Taylor – if your theory is true – that the machine does not work – how do you explain the scene (which is not a flashback and hence, is not a fabrication for the benefit of fooling Borden) where Angier is speaking to the theatre manager to convince him to do 100 shows. Angier is speaking to him both before and after the trick – couldn’t possibly be a double.
From my perspective, that’s the only scene you really need to prove the machine works (although there are plenty of other moments in the movie).
Taylor – if your theory is true – that the machine does not work – how do you explain the scene (which is not a flashback and hence, is not a fabrication for the benefit of fooling Borden) where Angier is speaking to the theatre manager to convince him to do 100 shows. Angier is speaking to him both before and after the trick – couldn’t possibly be a double.
From my perspective, that’s the only scene you really need to prove the machine works (although there are plenty of other moments in the movie).
Has anybody noticed that Angier sometimes seems to be left-handed and others right-handed? is it irrelevant or makes any sense to explain things? i have read somewhere that it is the same with Nolan and his brother…anyway, it was nice to read about this great movie again!
I appreciate every ones theory and yet you are all Robert Angier searching like him for the answers from his point of view.Taylor Holmes is 98 % percent right on the money except for the cloning part not being real.But even then the real answer is not revealed.
Notice Alfred Borden and Robert Angier are mostly mentioned on their names beginning with an A. The names starting with A is followed by a ‘n’ and the other one a ‘l’ . ‘m’ is separating the two; MAGIC or MONEY.Cutter is only know by that name.
What if this film is more about money than magic.From the very start before all the conflict started between two magicians,you were being fooled or should I say conned.It was all part of The Pledge.
Consider this.A father and his two identical sons,help rich people do magic for fame.They aren`t very well of because of their clothes and the way they speak.
A well of man joins this ‘family business’.He wants to learn magic.The father and two sons know they can make a fortune off him.Angier has good showman-ship,he knows the trade.
The Turn ; they kill his wife.Yes I said it.It was no accident.3 things happen now.We see Angier enraged and a lets be honest here , at an affordable funeral.
Why kill his wife you ask?To control the will.Or to lead Angier onto a path of not only revenge but competition only to be conned later.
Alfred starts a new act that plants the idea of revenge in Angier`s mind ; The transported man.
He meets Cutter (the father) who proposes an idea ;He can be better he has showman ship. He meets an assistant (Olivia )who is in on the act from the start.Yes she has been in love with Alfred from the start even before they met for the first time.She conveniently takes Angier to a double of himself or perhaps a clone.They constantly lead Angier away from the question, what knot was used and more to the trick of the transported man.As Angier follows Alfred.Alfred leads him and Fallon who follows hAngier down a certain path.Fallon falls through ,gets trapped by Cutter and Angier and held ransom for the the key code of the trick found in the notebook Alfred wanted .Bit weird that Alfred did the leading ?.He exchanges the key code but on purpose.When he told his wife he lost something precious was it the secret of his trick or perhaps Fallon his brother or maybe his clone.Bernard Fallon.The first letter followed by the a in Fallon is ‘ L ‘ again. Bernard is also the second letter to Alfred maybe meaning that he is the younger twin or the second original clone.
I`m not certain whether Angier knew that Borden was conning him and there for did a trick of his own and even revealed in his diary that he knew that Alfred Borden would play slip up and investigate.The thing is Angier killed many of himselfs leaving the question of where to all the clones go.Beckoning Borden to consider that and investigate.Angier staged his fake death to get back at Borden.But he still persist on knowing the truth of Alfred Bordens trick.He hit`s him where it hits hardest,taking his daughter.
The final part of the turn : Borden is hanged to death.
Cutter nods to Fallon/Borden after his conversation with Angier as he walks out of the theater.
The Prestige.Borden/Fallon appears or Prestiges only to Angier revealing the answer to him to his death.The whole world except Cutter and Alfreds daughter is still in The TURN phase forever.
Even when he explained almost everything and the audience is think they figured out the prestige the Narrator says ,….we want to be fooled. is true.
Alfred wanted to be caught and hanged for the murder of Angier.They needed for him to make lots of money then stop doing magic to hide his identity (Lord Coltrane) notice the C and play of the alphabetical letter through out the films characters.
Alfred finally killed the last and only version of Angier after they originally killed his wife.Conning him out of all his money he made for them.That`s what I thought happened anyway because Alfred meets with Cutter even though he was supposed to be on Angier`s side.
I could mention more trickery on screen but if I may just add two more important things : When Angier shot Alfred Borden`s two fingers off ,that was part of the trickery.Fallon who scouted the crowd for volunteers specifically chose the disguised Angier.They needed to distinguish the individuality of Alfred`s transporting man as a man with only 3 fingers on the one hand.Olivia noted that to Angier.
When Fallon got trapped in the box by Cutter and Angier ,he immediately shot out through the box,to warn Angier he has a gun.Angier therefor could not open the box at will and perhaps pull his disguise off.It fooled Angier and bought Alfred`s true trick some time.This too was planned as Alfred lead them in the chase scene.
Angier`s quest for vengeance got substituted with seeking fame and to better Alfred.Yet he was the one being tricked all the time.The sacrifices he made are nothing compared to Alfred loosing his brother or perhaps a clone friend .But it did make him rich.Try and watch the film again with these opinions I stated ; magicians tricking a man to lose his wife (she would get the will if he should die rich)so they took her out of the picture first.With the Transporting man they lead him to feel not only jealous but vengeful.They kept leading him even after a while he thought he got the upper hand and lead Alfred to a set up.They needed him to draw in crowds many times with an awesome trick.Why does Angier close his eyes when he allows people to inspect his device.He wants to trick Alfred into inspecting it and the under stage to set him up.Perhaps Alfred wanted to be set up maybe not.When he read Angier`s notes in prison ,Angiers speaks to him directly.
Why does Alfred/Fallon so easily reveal his tricks to Angier but not the reason for the knot?
The knot was a murder, to con Angier onto to this path.And in the end they made money from a half-assed unoriginal ‘magician’.
If Fallon was a clone then Alfred iss a better magician than Angier ever could be.It was in his nature to work with his clone (himself) but Angier nor his 100 clones could trust each other or work together.
Angier even though he was the conned victim,deserved true death in the end like Alfred took responsibility for Sarah Borden`s death (Fallon`s wife),never for Julia (Angier`s wife).
Angier’s machine did work.
You need to read the book.
Sorry, you tricked yourself.